Super Mario Nova Zero - 38A/1.4.4 ( COLLAB )

[Eri7]

I'm having doubts that a platformer can stay engaging over the course of 200 levels. Do you really have a spreadsheet with 200 detailed ideas that have to make it into the story somehow or are you trying to hit large numbers for the sake of it? Most AAA platformers I know start to get boring after 6 hours of playtime, and they make the smart move of not overstaying their welcome but instead using the time they ask players to put into them to deliver a complete, varied and fun package.

So there are so many levels because:
1. There are 5 villains in this project , the main villains are Bowser and Nova and the rest are Darkstein + 2 Villains that i won't spoil yet.
Every Villain has levels dedicated to his story , example :
Bowser will have around 125 levels dedicated to his story , this means that half of the project is about you stopping Bowser.
The rest of the levels will be either about the other villains or just levels you could find on the world map.
2.No , i am not trying to hit large numbers just for the sake of it , i have aloooot of ideas and my current 70 levels count proves that i do and these are just before world 4 , i am always trying to make levels unique or stand out from the rest of the levels so it doesn't feel repetitive , there are so many possiblities with 38A that i want to explore them all with this project and prove just how amazing 38A actually is.
3.These platformers might get boring because they are not exciting or feel repetitive , like you expect what is going to happen and is just gets boring because you already know what would happen even if you didn't play the rest of the game, i don't want this to be the same case for my project , i want a lot of unexpected stuff to happen in this project that the player wouldn't expect from playing a SMBX episode.
4.The player doesn't have to play all of the 250 levels, see the ending most players want is to defeat Bowser , after that they will probably quit or continue if they are attached to the story or just want to explore the world of Super Mario Nova, of course it would be bad if i dont engage the player in the story of Super Mario Nova because they wouldn't want to continue on playing it, that's why i want to do something different that nobody has ever done before regarding smbx projects.
5.About the spreadsheet , no i don't have one but i have a vision on how most of the stuff would play out , if i didn't have any ideas to work with , i wouldnt make this project so big because i don't want people to play through boring , uninteresting and repetitive levels just for the sake of completing the project , NO , i want people to have fun , to feel like they want to continue on and on with playing it and also for my project to be able to be interesting for everyone.
6.I admit , this is very ambitious and a lot of the expectations that most people have about this project is that it will either get cancelled because i would not be able to complete it because of its size as a smbx project or that the levels will end up boring because i would run out of ideas on making interesting levels because of the whole 250 levels count but i don't want to give up , i have so many ideas and with the support i currently have while developing this project i truly feel like this is possible so i will not give up and i will continue on working on this project until i can break people's expectation about this project and ME as a developer of smbx project.

1. I see.. is there a reason for this to be one project rather than 5 then? A game's about a journey to stop a villain, so if the story of bowser exists isolated from the others or serves as a setup, other related villains could be fleshed out in a sequel.
2. Quality has Quantity beat by a longshot when it comes to design. I'm not saying I doubt that specifically you can make a 200 level project where people don't get bored, but rather that I don't think anyone can. I would personally rather see a handful of concepts done extremely well than seeing every concept in the world executed at a decent level of quality.
3. This point makes no sense to me. Sounds like the project will end up being a big disconnected mess of ideas that all had to fit in somewhere, in an attempt to keep players attached. Surprising the player is cool, but doing it 100 times in a row gets exhausting. As for the case of general platformers, I think the issue is less with them getting boring and repetitive, and moreso with the platformers having spent enough time on the journey. I respect games like New Super Mario Bros and Kirby: Planet Robobot, two games I really like, for ending when they did. Because while both of them could have spent more time going into their mechanics and it would've certainly made for great levels, the games realised that their plot cannot warrant more playtime from the player. Always try to cut out padding from your game. Don't sacrifice the journey for more content.
4. If your expectation is that players will quit after they played half the levels in the episode, why are you designing the other half? A sequel sounds like the better idea to me.
5. I recommend getting a spreadsheet. It's helpful to have your ideas concretely detailed in front of you, in case you forget a few in a year down the road. You'll also be able to more accurately build levels on top of other levels and plan the routes the player can follow if you have an overview over your gimmicks and worlds from beginning to end.
6. I'm more concerned about the redesign curse than cancellation. You know... when someone improves at something, they look back at their old work and see its flaws. If you view the World 1-4 levels of this project in 2 years, you'll probably feel like reworking them, adding more months to development time. Otherwise the difference in quality between beginning and end will be pretty big and people have to get through the old, weak stuff to get to the new, good stuff. This is why I always recommend shorter projects. The turnaround is quicker, there's less room for padding and the quality is more consistent.

1.Yes because the villains are all connected in one big story and they appear in other's villains levels unexpectedly , its one big world of Super Mario Nova and i don't want them to be sequels because there will be a small kind of RPG system and i don't want the players to either start from scratch in order to play other's villain's stories and the true ending will require the player to beat all 5 of them so he can truly complete the project with it's big story.
2.Yeah you are right but i will try my best to make every idea count , i don't want to feel bad because of your opinion , i don't want to reduce the levels because you think i will fail , i don't want to make a project that i am not happy with so i will continue on these 250 levels and my goal is at least for now to keep every level above average because as you might know , i am not expert level designer and also not every level will be made by me because i am not a machine to spend 24/7 working on this project every day while i stay inspired and always motivated to finish every level on a perfect imaginary score.
3.I will not always suprise the player , didn't you read what i wrote , I DON'T WANT THIS PROJECT TO FEEL REPETITIVE AND I WANT PEOPLE TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN AND BE INTERESTED AT IT, also i am not sacrificing the journey for more content , no , the journey is very big as the story and the world of this project , this is not your ordinary smbx project ...
4.As i said , i want to break my expectation and make the players WANT to play the rest of the project , i am not that dumb to make 125 levels just for nothing ...
5.OK finally a helpful opinion by you , i haven't heard these from a loooong time, yeah i could do that.
6.Yeah this is a problem for this project , i ALWAYS redesign old levels because i am constantly improving and i see more and more flaws at my old levels and as i said , i want the start of this project to be GOOD just like the END , i WANT to break expectations and make the WHOLE journey feel worth playing through.

[Emral]

I'm not recommending you to cut down the number of levels "because I think you won't make it", but rather because I think such a large level count will be a detriment to the project's overall quality. As for "finally helpful advice"... all my advice is intended to be helpful but advice tends to be unhelpful when the receiving end isn't taking it into consideration or misreading it...

[Eri7]

Well i want to prove you wrong about thinking that way about this project because i don't want to feel bad for doing what i want to do.

[Eri7]

Birthday UPDATE! Yes , its my birthday today and i wanted to make an update on the topic!

Updates regarding Super Mario Nova:

There is now a spreadsheet where levels are planned out for the second demo(thanks to Enjl's idea).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Now here are some screenshots/gifs.

Here is a level made by SMBXFanboi2013 and redesigned by me , the level is heavily focused around the penguin suit and tries to utilise all of the abilities that the penguin suit has.







Now here are some gifs of a level made by 8luestorm:







And some more gifs of a level that was started by WildWEEGEE but its now being made by 8luestorm:





Here is a screenshot of polished level 1:



And here is a screenshot of a new ice level focused around the penguin suit with new BOOSTER blocks that add more momentum to the player's movement:



Now here are some updates regarding my discord server , The Novaverse:

Today on my birthday i launched 3 events there and there will be one more that would be hosted by Flatkiwi tonight:
Link to the Discord Server:


The current Events , they start from today and will end after 1 month and joining these events could give you rewards related to the development of the Nova Projects:

Art Contest:



Elimination Collage:



Gaming Event hosted by Vito:



Anyways , that was for today and probably this month , bye!

[WildW]

I know my contribution wasn’t much but that level that 8lue is making was originally mine, one day however I decided to stop progress on it due to being unmotivated. (That usually happens when I do water levels) so I’d like some recognition even if its small. But also... happy b-day!

[Eri7]

I know my contribution wasn’t much but that level that 8lue is making was originally mine, one day however I decided to stop progress on it due to being unmotivated. (That usually happens when I do water levels) so I’d like some recognition even if its small. But also... happy b-day!

Ah yeah , i almost forgot about that , sorry.
Also thanks.

[DarvinosBobaFett]

Very Interesting Episode! All levels Very Neat.
So Great Job! Keep it up work!

[Eri7]

The Project is going to be on hiatus , its unknown how much time would the hiatus be... I'm putting it in hiatus because i lost my motivation , yes i lost it so many times this year that i can't longer count it and people started to get angry at me that i keep losing it , i felt bad about it and hopeless , i just wanted to make a change in the community but my motivation wasn't strong enough , i don't know what happened to it , why is it no longer here , people keep telling me to improve but how am i supposed to do that when i feel lifeless without any desire to be productive... People think that could help me but nobody has really helped me. I feel like that announcing the hiatus might make people think on me as a developer on another level and i hope its not in negative one. I just want to tell you that it has been hard , keeping it together , motivation , quality , satisfaction , happiness and etc. these stuff are hard to keep for a long time on development , i thought i could do that , i thought i could beat my expectations , that i could show to everyone that i am not wasting their time but as you see , i am just a liar who doesn't deserve recognition and i now understand that i am pathetic for doing all of this , trying to be someone i am not and not being myself. Well guys , i hope my motivation comes back someday but until then prepare for disappointment from my side.

[Emral]

Stop making a fool of yourself through self-deprecation. I've told you already that long projects require a lot of time, dedication and experience. The struggle is part of the experience and from it you will learn how to do or not do things going forward. Maybe now you'll take my advice of focusing on smaller projects of one or a few levels each to gather experience in the tools you need to work on your passion projects. The less stuff you need to figure out as you go, the liklier a project is to being finished.

The takeaway is though, that you are not pathetic for attempting something too enormous for your current skill level. You are not a liar for only realising the difficulty of the task halfway through. You are not undeserved of recognition due to failing to finish something, but should instead learn from what you have made and apply it in things you can confidently finish.

The reason why big projects are exhausting is because the payoff lies so far in the future. There is a mountain of work an individual has to overcome in order to see the result of their hard work. Screenshot updates and demos are ways in which this can be dealt with, but it more often than not add even more pressure from trying to keep up a schedule on top of the already big mountain.
A small project will give you that payoff within days or weeks. Getting feedback on what you did a week ago and watching people enjoy it is much more rewarding and motivating. Doing stuff like that can be a way for you to regain some motivation.
Maybe finding a different temporary passion would also help breathe motivation into you. I started making music recently when I was in need for a change in my life, so maybe you can find something that suits you.

Stop self-deprecating though. You're misinterpreting the entire situation by doing it and it can be really harmful to yourself.
Get those intrusive thoughts out of your mind and dissect the situation properly. Take a few days off to play some games or hang out with friends and pick up something new when you feel like you're ready to. There's no shame in being dormant for a week.
Godspeed.

[Teemster2]

I am actually planning a long episode/scenario myself. I agree with everything enjl said but I also plan to take a different approach. My life can be very busy at times with lot's of over time at my job or family things so I plan to work on mine in my free time with no thread or updates about it here. Instead I plan to wait until I am almost finished with it before I even post anything. I have no shortage of ideas or motivation and I also want it to be perfect and thus may spend several years or more working on it before I even consider releasing it. I am a perfectionist and everything has to be just right before I post anything here. Also there is a lot less pressure and worries and more fun just working on the levels in my own time.

Maybe you should consider this approach. Maybe the pressure or time schedule was too much but don't give up. Take a break if needed but then come back when you are ready. You are not stupid and you are not a liar. You just found out what many before you have found out and that is creating an episode takes a lot of time and work and is not easy thus you need to think about it as something fun to do in your free time. If your just doing this for anybody other than yourself you may get burnt out. Don't beat yourself up. If at first you don't succeed then when your ready try again but take your time.

I personally don't care for updates. It takes time away from working on levels and I could care less about the attention. Anyways I hope you learn from your mistakes and listen to Enjl. I may not agree with him on everything but he defiantly knows this game better than most and is right in everything he said in this thread. I respect and value his opinion and you should take everything he said into consideration.

We are all here for you. So don't be a stranger. Besides it's just a game and not worth getting all depressed over. Life is precious so enjoy it while you can. You can always come back to your project later and you don't even have to say anything until you are ready to or until when it's done. For now just take a break and enjoy life.

[Emral]

I plan to work on mine in my free time with no thread or updates about it here. Instead I plan to wait until I am almost finished with it before I even post anything.

That's how my current project is going as well. Me and the rest of the 2k1x crew have been working on it in the shadows for over a year now, and it feels great not having project thread pressure. I would like to give you a bit of advice for planning out a project so that it's more likely to get finished (at least in my experience this has helped a lot):
Don't start with a set level count, but instead fully conceptualise how the player progresses. My current project started with 8 key plot points, which I've numbered and then assigned mandatory levels to. All additional levels were inserted as "inbetweens" and could be moved around if the difficulty didn't match in that area.

Example:

Plot list:
1. Player learns about threat from neighbour kingdom, begins adventure.
2. Upon arrival, he finds Bowser Jr., who knocks him halfway across the globe. The player gets a glimpse of a work-in-progress Bowser skyscraper.
3. Mario finds himself inside a strange cavern.

Level list:
1. Start of an Adventure
1.1 Raisin Plains
1.2 Mushroom Marsh
1.3 Border Patrol
2 Bowser Jr.'s Big Bamboozle
3 Pitchblack Escape

Doing something like that keeps your list flexible and lets you keep an overview over what you want to happen at what point in the game. You can then work on the big numbers first, to have a minimum required product ready, and spend additional time and motivation on these inbetweens, the ones with the decimal numbers.
And the best part of it all: It can be neatly arranged in a spreadsheet with index, name, description, status and whether it has a boss or other collectibles!
Hope this is of some use to you. Good luck with your project.

[erkyp3rky]

A big issue people have is Expectations VS Reality. Think realistically, not unrealistically.

[Teemster2]

I plan to work on mine in my free time with no thread or updates about it here. Instead I plan to wait until I am almost finished with it before I even post anything.

That's how my current project is going as well. Me and the rest of the 2k1x crew have been working on it in the shadows for over a year now, and it feels great not having project thread pressure. I would like to give you a bit of advice for planning out a project so that it's more likely to get finished (at least in my experience this has helped a lot):
Don't start with a set level count, but instead fully conceptualise how the player progresses. My current project started with 8 key plot points, which I've numbered and then assigned mandatory levels to. All additional levels were inserted as "inbetweens" and could be moved around if the difficulty didn't match in that area.

Example:

Plot list:
1. Player learns about threat from neighbour kingdom, begins adventure.
2. Upon arrival, he finds Bowser Jr., who knocks him halfway across the globe. The player gets a glimpse of a work-in-progress Bowser skyscraper.
3. Mario finds himself inside a strange cavern.

Level list:
1. Start of an Adventure
1.1 Raisin Plains
1.2 Mushroom Marsh
1.3 Border Patrol
2 Bowser Jr.'s Big Bamboozle
3 Pitchblack Escape

Doing something like that keeps your list flexible and lets you keep an overview over what you want to happen at what point in the game. You can then work on the big numbers first, to have a minimum required product ready, and spend additional time and motivation on these inbetweens, the ones with the decimal numbers.
And the best part of it all: It can be neatly arranged in a spreadsheet with index, name, description, status and whether it has a boss or other collectibles!
Hope this is of some use to you. Good luck with your project.

I never thought of using the spreadsheet until you mentioned it. I am using a text word document at the moment but a spread sheet would be more useful and I plan to switch over now at some point. I will take everything you say into consideration. Thanks.

[CappytainSwag]

It's nice to see an nice episode like yours being made into the 38A version of the game. ^-^
Most people tend to judge the 38A just because it isn't "official".

[Westretroman]

It's nice to see an nice episode like yours being made into the 38A version of the game. ^-^
Most people tend to judge the 38A just because it isn't "official".

It isn't just because, it isn't official. It is also because of the fact that 38A, and this has been repeated for so many times, has a different physics engine than the actual SMBX and the fact that it has a bunch of bugs. Most people are acceptable of 38A content around here, so there isn't too much conflict, like it used to be.

[Cedur]

It's nice to see an nice episode like yours being made into the 38A version of the game. ^-^
Most people tend to judge the 38A just because it isn't "official".

have you even noticed that this is put on hiatus, if not cancelled entirely

[CappytainSwag]

It's nice to see an nice episode like yours being made into the 38A version of the game. ^-^
Most people tend to judge the 38A just because it isn't "official".

have you even noticed that this is put on hiatus, if not cancelled entirely

Yes, I saw it. Let's hope it's not cancelled.

[Eri7]

It's nice to see an nice episode like yours being made into the 38A version of the game. ^-^
Most people tend to judge the 38A just because it isn't "official".

have you even noticed that this is put on hiatus, if not cancelled entirely

Yes, I saw it. Let's hope it's not cancelled.

I have good news relating the project's development.
It is not cancelled and the hiatus is over , i have regain part of my motivation and i took some good decisions regarding Super Mario Nova.
Super Mario Nova will be divided into 2 Parts with their own theme but Part 2 will be an add on(DLC) to Part 1 which means in order to play Part 2 first you have to put it in the folder of Part 1 , i will try my best to explain it when the time comes.Part 1 will not be a demo or 50% of Super Mario Nova , it will be its own COMPLETED episode that connects to Part 2, Part 2 will be like a DLC that you can play after you have progressed enough in Part 1.
Also when Part 1 is done , i might continue with Part 2 if i have enough free time in the future to do it because nobody knows how life will go on.
Also i have decided to remove "The Novaverse" , "The Novaverse" is a concept of multiverse that involves multiple projects , it connects them into one big story but i have realised that it was too big for me to do and also that it will do more harm than good so i decided to remove it and focus all of my attention to the development of Super Mario Nova Part 1 and maybe Part 2 if things go right. Thank you for following the development of Super Mario Nova for so long , i will try my best to not disappoint you again.

[Mr Boboo]

It's good to see that you're able to work on this again! I don't use 1.4 but this still shows some real potential to be one of the only exceptional 1.4 episodes.

[GDKeptr]

OMG, I am so glad that it was no longer in hiatus anymore. Which means I would be able to finish the SMW Cloud level for your project.