Hello, forum users. It has come to my attention that there is a growing problem on the forums. It appears that the project forum is being flooded with unfinished and low quality projects and the average and the trash can subforums are being flooded with levels. But what is causing this? In my analysis it seems to be new users on the forums that are causing this. There seems to be a never-ending flood of new users on the forums. But how are we supposed to fix this?
Well, in order to answer that, we need to figure out what exactly is happening. Whenever a new user comes onto the forum, the first thing (99% of the time) he/she immediately wants to do is start designing levels and create a project with 5-8 worlds, usually 8. The levels the new users make usually have one or more of these flaws: A) Clash B) A complete lack of BGOs C) Lack of Custom GFX where Custom GFX are needed D) Overused Concepts. I'm sure there's more that I can't think of, but you get the idea.
Projects tend to be even worse. The levels they make for episode are low quality, and most of the time they quit mid-way because it just becomes too much for them. The few that do get finished suffer from some of these flaws: A) Too repititive B) Too average C) Overused Concepts D) Low Quality Levels. I think there's more, but I can't think of them right now. Also, new users tend to attempt projects that are WAY out of their league. I saw one user (who I'd never seen before) attempting to make Super Mario Bros. 4.
So how is this supposed to be fixed? Well, the only way the flow of low quality levels and projects can be stopped is if new users stop trying to design these their first time on the forums. So here's my message to all the new users out there:
Stop it! I'm not trying to be mean, but before you ever start trying to design levels, increase your knowledge of level design. There's countless tips and tricks on the forums. Learn what is traditionally good and bad design in a level. Watch some of the tutorials on YouTube. And for your first project, a good rule of thumb is to not have more than 2 worlds and no more than 10 levels. And, if you're new and want to see a sequel to a cool project, such as Invasion 3 or Super Mario Bros 4, ask the experts of level design to create it, such as Valtteri or Quill. You could do this by Private Messaging them, or opening up a thread in General SMBX Discussion with a poll asking people if they would like Super Mario Bros. 4, or the Invasion 3 (I know the Invasion 3 is being created right now. I'm just using that as an example).
One argument I get from people is that people need to design levels so that they can get constructive critiscism about what they need to do to improve. Maybe after they've gotten the basic concepts of good level design, yes, but when they're new to level designing, they can learn how to create better levels without flooding the forums with low-quality levels.
If you want to find some YouTube Level Designing tutorials, there's a few there and I'm going to see if I can post tutorials on the SMBX YouTube Channel.
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A Growing Problem on the Forums
Moderator: Userbase Moderators
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsWhy the heck would this even remotely be a problem on the forums? just because someone is a noob at SMBX doesn't mean they can't improve, and why should an administrator help them with a level let alone a project? They already have enough things to deal with!
This is a thing that no one can stop, I see your point but this topic is amazingly flaw with catastrophic problems. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsI agree (looks at MyNameIsEric52) we should really delete the cluttered amount of unfinished projects so that it won't look so bad.
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsNobody is born an amazing level designer and they definitely won't become one if they don't post their levels for others to criticize.
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsI don't see the problem with new users making levels before they're good level designers. To improve, they need to do nothing more than practice, and they can get constructive criticism by posting screens/downloads for their levels. When a user wants to play a great level, they can just go to the best levels subforum and find some there, so they don't need to pick through bad levels.
You bring up an interesting point on projects. I also find the projects subforum crowded. I don't think that new level designers shouldn't start projects at all, but they should probably start out with a more manageable project for their first (I made this mistake a lot when I was new). The only way I could think of to solve this problem would be to create a subforum for the "best projects". This subforum could include only projects that are well-made and have good progress being made on them. LJ's could be responsible for differentiating projects into the "best projects" category. Then users wanting to look into cool projects can just check that subforum. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsHow are users going to improve if they don't post their levels and receive constructive criticism? I get the point you're trying to make, but I don't agree with it. I guarantee more than half of the prominent SMBX users made mediocre levels at first, but improved due to receiving criticism, and look at them now. How is someone, especially new to the editor, going to improve if they don't post their beginning levels and receive criticism on them? They aren't.
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsI don't think Valtteri and Quill want people PMing them to make SMB4 and TI3.
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Re: A Growing Problem on the Forums^this^ also to help this out, here's an idea: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... =48&t=6684 |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsImagine the amount of people who read the Project Forum rules. Now imagine the amount of people who will read that quote and consider it. You are casting a piece of paper into an ocean. Not the best way to solve problems. >And, if you're new and want to see a sequel to a cool project, such as Invasion 3 or Super Mario Bros 4, ask the experts of level design to create it, such as Valtteri or Quill. Do not do this. Our artisans are not for hire nor did they ever want to be for hire. They shouldn't be forced to do requests for content. Mario episodes aren't like let's plays. >One argument I get from people is that people need to design levels so that they can get constructive critiscism about what they need to do to improve. It's more than that. You're forgetting about the standards of level design. That is up to people like you to raise and promote. I'd give your essay like a B or a C. Somewhere in there. SRS question, do we have like, locked projects more than, say, 2 weeks old? Because I'll go and wipe them off the Earth right now if no one else is cleaning up the skeletons. >Valt, SM7, and ZM12 talk about making levels Umm, guys? This is about PROJECTS, not levels. No, do not say they're making levels and putting it in Projects. That is still comically missing the point. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsDarkmatt this isn't just about projects Y'know. It's about how to prevent people from making bad levels and such, you just misinterpret what he just said. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsSpoiler: show |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsI completely agree. I swear, I post a comment on a project thread just to see it bumped down 6 positions down the line just to see that half of more recent topics to be locked. Maybe we could have two subforums like MAJOR PROJECTS (community projects like Power Stars, Attack on the SMBX forums and Super Mario Legends) and MINOR PROJECTS (housing not as large projects like Kamek's Tower, ADVENTURE: Vacation Plights and Boss Rushes). It's just a thought. Spoiler: show |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsPoint taken. If you saw a post that said otherwise, that was me being full of shit. We do get more bad projects than bad levels, though. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsI can see if in the long run you definitely can't finish a project and you can't pass on the torch that you would cancel it completely, but if you're just bored with it, just put it on hiatus, take a break. The problem is that people expect so much from themselves that they take on some big project and expect to finish it within a few months, most of these good episodes that we get have been worked on for over the course of a few years, and for the SMBX community that's not really that long of a time seeing as we've been around for 5-6 years now?
What needs to be done is have a big reminder put up that newcomers, or anyone in general, should they decide to work on a project, make it as small as a collection of a few levels or maybe a few worlds, just not something as big as 8-9 long worlds. That and it might be a good idea for newcomers to go in as a group and design a short project together, which actually brings a contest idea I had to mind. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsAnother problem that I've encountered is that a lot of new users make projects with something like over 400 levels and 20 worlds, but as OP said, the concepts are used over a million times and the levels still remain the same, and a lot of these often fail at world 4. I remember one guy from SMBX Revived attempt five times at a 200 level project but failed and eventually quit the community because of this.
Why do new users try to make massive projects with that many levels? |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsThat was TimeFlux something. He only finished a project revolving around the shoes. I have it if anybody wants it.
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsThis. They just try to shove all stuff they noticed in Classic Mario Series as much as possible  I did same though, but refused of secret star world finally. Now I'd like to set off staple beefs by topicstarter: A) Clash Hm, I hope you're not mean graphical clash as OHNO THAT LVL HAS SMB3 GUMBA & SMB2 SHYGUYZ ITS CLUSH YO LVL IS BAD B) A complete lack of BGOs Moot point, because some people dislikes overusing of BGOs. C) Lack of Custom GFX where Custom GFX are needed Needed for what?. If to fix cutoff, it's ok. But if someone didn't recolored SMB2 Shy Guy or Volcano Lotus to SMB3 NON-CLASHING COLORS , that's not a thing to make level worse. D) Overused Concepts First point to take it valid. I'll stay there detail. What is most feasible story can be for SMBX episode: (Here is relevant topic) - Bowser/Wario/Waluigi/a criminal syndicate/UFO/etc. kidnapped princess Peach/Daisy/Rosalina/Apple/Luigi/Mario/Toad/domestic hamster/etc. Remain dudes go to kick villain's ass and free stolen dudes! - Bowser/Wario/Waluigi/UFO/etc. invaded in Mushroom Kingdom or somewhere else. Dudes go to kick villain's ass! Add to taste transformed kings and ruined houses. - One guy got awoke with a hangover far far away from his home. Now you need help him to get home! (Though this story fits for joke episode more and some people don't like joke levels!) - A custom story with custom starring dudes (with Merio or Link abilities lol ALSO CLUSH) What is most feasible game concept can be for SMBX episode: - SMB1 Styled episode (Oh no Fake Bowser plays hammer throwing/fire spewing sounds ITS NOT TRU) - SMB2 Styled episode - SMB3 Styled episode (Oh no Roy has no earthquake ability ITS NOT TRU) - SMW Styled episode (Oh no Morton and Roy cannot walk on the walls ITS NOT TRU) - Mixed Episode (ITS CLUSH) - Hub Episode (Wait you missed a star somewhere COME BACK AND FIND IT NOW MUHAHAHA) - Zelda Styled episode (with 3 maximum HP lol) What is most feasible boss can be for SMBX episode: - SMBX Legacy Bosses + SMBX Legacy Bosses with Custom GFX - Mother Brain with Custom GFX attached to NPC (10 max HP) - Lakitus attached to Lakitus! (Beware of random lags heh!) - Someone else NPCs attached to each other (the same, but lower chance of lags) - SMB3 Thwomp with Custom GFX (He can be moved, but can't be attached normally, though I did it once with lots of layers, it's not easy to do for beginners) Summarizing, standart story is not disaster. Heck, it's SMB game! Gameplay stamps aren't bad by itself, if there get quality processing. And project limitations for level quantity for "new" members is not a good method to increase the quality of episode. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsI think that's because new users wants to make something as a standard Mario game. |
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsJust because someone's new to the forums doesn't mean they're new to SMBX.
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Re: A Growing Problem on the ForumsHang on. A standard Mario game has 8 worlds. I've seen one person go as far as something as crazy as 15. Surely a Mario game doesn't have 15 worlds, right? |
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