M38 - Host Sign-ups! (Runoff voting!)

[Zeldamaster12]

Would it work if rather than having the Nurse, I just include another Medic? In this case, I have an idea for it.

[Cedur]

Initially I thought of having one blue role being a doctor (against NK; has a nurse) and the other being someone e.g. called "toxicologist" (against poisoning). Two medics who can protect against both can potentially heal themselves indefinitely if they manage to find eachother and are not found out by the manipulator.

[Zeldamaster12]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I had in mind. The Nurse would be replaced by a role that can heal poisonings, but can't protect from nightkills.

Would it be a good idea for the main Medic to both protect and heal, or just protect, while the other Medic heals?

[Cedur]

Either have the former, or have a protect-only doctor and a heal-only doctor with another special role (like Deputy). Both works out imo.

[Zeldamaster12]

Alright, changed the Nurse role to Cleanser. I don't really want a Deputy-type role this game because I feel that'd put the Mafia at a bit of a disadvantage.

[Julia Pseudo]

Yeah I think the balance is definitely good now. This still makes the Nurse an inferior role to the doctor while still allowing her to help heal the poisonings before the doctor dies.

[Danny]

Also Danny, care to elaborate on your problems with the Alter-ego's?
You are right that the mafia loses a member if one of them is killed but the town loses a blue aswell.

Firstly, the Sane Alter-Ego is not blue, so you can't call it a blue.
Secondly, I think peoples' reliance on calling things "blue roles" is pretty dumb. It's a special role, but even still, that doesn't make it entirely good or useful.

I do agree that I made the blue Alter-ego a bit too weak and thus allow the town to basically kill a mafioso with 100% accuracy without there being any punishment. I changed its role from a role-revealer to a follower in order to make the death of the blue that is killed when the Insane Alter-Ego dies more of a burden to the town.

The death of the Sane Alter-Ego will be less of a burden to the town as it will be a burden to the Mafia. They lose one of their own members, and if they've already lost one of their own, it puts them at an extreme disadvantage. In any case, whether it's through a nightkill or lynch, the Mafia is always going to get screwed over if the Alter-Ego dies. It's not about the town's Alter-Ego, it's about the mafia's Alter-Ego.

The original idea behind it was that people would figure out the sane Alter-Ego and use him to execute a mafioso when the time is right, but with this they also lose a lot of power themselves. I think it is more balanced now. but if there is anything else wrong with the mechanic I would like to know so I can find a way to fix it.

The town loses absolutely no power with their Alter-Ego dead. Yes, they lose the ability for the Alter-Ego to reveal himself to people every night, but what good does that do other than form a blue alliance early? The Mafia's Alter-Ego is extremely useful to the team, and its high chance of just dying thanks to RNG is ludicrous, because it can pretty much throw the game for the already small Mafia team, especially if they've already lost a player. There are a lot of things that promote killing in this game, be it the Mafia's nightkill, the Director's nightkill, the Executioner's nightkill, or the fact that there are a lot of double-vote mechanics (Director and Psychiatrist), it really puts the Mafia on a slight disadvantage, because any of these can target their Alter-Ego, or the town's Alter-Ego. Throw that on top of the Therapist's roleblocking and the Doctor's ability to revive people, it doesn't entirely make a fair game for the Mafia.

[Witchking666]

I do agree that I made the blue Alter-ego a bit too weak and thus allow the town to basically kill a mafioso with 100% accuracy without there being any punishment. I changed its role from a role-revealer to a follower in order to make the death of the blue that is killed when the Insane Alter-Ego dies more of a burden to the town.

The death of the Sane Alter-Ego will be less of a burden to the town as it will be a burden to the Mafia. They lose one of their own members, and if they've already lost one of their own, it puts them at an extreme disadvantage. In any case, whether it's through a nightkill or lynch, the Mafia is always going to get screwed over if the Alter-Ego dies. It's not about the town's Alter-Ego, it's about the mafia's Alter-Ego.

Okay, I can understand your point right there, the mafia only has four members to begin with. Do you think adding a fifth mafia member at the cost of one of the town specials or a townie would fix this?

The original idea behind it was that people would figure out the sane Alter-Ego and use him to execute a mafioso when the time is right, but with this they also lose a lot of power themselves. I think it is more balanced now. but if there is anything else wrong with the mechanic I would like to know so I can find a way to fix it.

The town loses absolutely no power with their Alter-Ego dead. Yes, they lose the ability for the Alter-Ego to reveal himself to people every night, but what good does that do other than form a blue alliance early? The Mafia's Alter-Ego is extremely useful to the team, and its high chance of just dying thanks to RNG is ludicrous, because it can pretty much throw the game for the already small Mafia team, especially if they've already lost a player. There are a lot of things that promote killing in this game, be it the Mafia's nightkill, the Director's nightkill, the Executioner's nightkill, or the fact that there are a lot of double-vote mechanics (Director and Psychiatrist), it really puts the Mafia on a slight disadvantage, because any of these can target their Alter-Ego, or the town's Alter-Ego. Throw that on top of the Therapist's roleblocking and the Doctor's ability to revive people, it doesn't entirely make a fair game for the Mafia.

How exactly would you advice me to fix this? Now that you laid it out like that it is quite obvious the mafia is a bit underpowered. The only way I can think of to fix this is to remove a blue role, most likely the Therapist (roleblocker) or the nurse and add another mafia member instead. Also, I don't really think you read my game again before posting the critisism. I have changed a lot of things according to your and Pseudo's reviews, including the fact that the town alter-ego is now more powerful was most likely not a great idea. But I would like to get some crisism on the new mafia roles aswell as on the game in general after I fixed some stuff.
To be honest, lets face it, there is hardly any chance of me winning these host signups. Psychopathy Red was originally not even supposed to be a serious host signups entry. I made the game to post it into the game concept thread to get some feedback. The main reason I submitted it is to get critisism on my game-making skills (or lack thereof) so I can get better in the future.

[PixelPest]

I'd suggest against another Mafia member for sure
Maybe just modify/change a role or two

[MacheTheFerret]

when vote

[MECHDRAGON777]

when vote

When every game is approved.

[Danny]

Okay, I can understand your point right there, the mafia only has four members to begin with. Do you think adding a fifth mafia member at the cost of one of the town specials or a townie would fix this?

No, that is too many mafia members.

How exactly would you advice me to fix this?

Come up with a different Mafia role and a different Town role.

Also, I don't really think you read my game again before posting the critisism.

What makes you think that?

To be honest, lets face it, there is hardly any chance of me winning these host signups. Psychopathy Red was originally not even supposed to be a serious host signups entry. I made the game to post it into the game concept thread to get some feedback. The main reason I submitted it is to get critisism on my game-making skills (or lack thereof) so I can get better in the future.

You should have posted this in the game concept thread, then. Most people are willing to give feedback. Regardless of that, it would have been much preferable if you treated this as a serious host signup, because seeing this excuse repeatedly is getting annoying, quite frankly.

[Witchking666]

Okay, I can understand your point right there, the mafia only has four members to begin with. Do you think adding a fifth mafia member at the cost of one of the town specials or a townie would fix this?

No, that is too many mafia members.

How exactly would you advice me to fix this?

Come up with a different Mafia role and a different Town role.

Also, I don't really think you read my game again before posting the critisism.

What makes you think that?

To be honest, lets face it, there is hardly any chance of me winning these host signups. Psychopathy Red was originally not even supposed to be a serious host signups entry. I made the game to post it into the game concept thread to get some feedback. The main reason I submitted it is to get critisism on my game-making skills (or lack thereof) so I can get better in the future.

You should have posted this in the game concept thread, then. Most people are willing to give feedback. Regardless of that, it would have been much preferable if you treated this as a serious host signup, because seeing this excuse repeatedly is getting annoying, quite frankly.

It isn't like I don't want to host mafia or anything. I just know that there is no chance of me beating ZM12 or you/pseudo.

[Danny]

That's not very optimistic.

[Sevennights]

but it seems kinda true-ish though given how great your games/ hosting skills have been
it kinda discourages others but we still try

[MECHDRAGON777]

Also, Danny: he did post it in the game concept thread.

[Zeldamaster12]

If you're submitting the game to receive criticism more than to actually win, then at that point, you're holding up the host signup process and you're better off posting in the game concept thread. Please hurry and fix your game so we can get this thing rolling, witchking.

[Witchking666]

You might aswell just post the poll without my game. I shall from now on only ask for critisism in the Game Concept Thread and on discord. My Apology for the inconvenience I caused.

[Julia Pseudo]

The poll is now available...

[Thehelmetguy1]

Looks like we will have a tiebreaker poll. Well, gotta say that both games are good, so I will be fine with whoever wins