*Insert title for a controversial topic subject here*

[silent_]

2. Normal users are not the voice of reason for this community. Don't try to tell the staff how to do their jobs.

No one has directly told the staff how to do their jobs yet in this thread, unless you consider mere criticism "telling the staff how to do their jobs".

5. Like I've said, we're going to have disagreements, but you really need to stop taking things in this community so seriously. Someone gets warned HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWFUL WE NEED REFORM. Calm down.

No one ever overreacted to a warning like that. Stop exaggerating.

And a warning definitely should be taken seriously, like, it's a warning, and you and your staff team is giving really abrupt and unnecessary users board warnings and it needs to stop.

This topic is so funny it deserves to go into the archives. Very few topics have the gold that this one has.

You're not helping at all, so stop, please.

[Marina]

<Blue> "Not sure why you're all with bothering this. We've just been told that user input ain't allowed."

[Shadow Yoshi]

Right, because I totally just said that.

[Marina]

[Kyo]

There is a clear difference between criticism and a command, Joey. I never got the impression that anyone is telling you how to do what. Right now you make the impression that you are desperately trying to defend yourself and your staff. Of course the final decision is up to you, but please, at least act as if you care about your userbase and its opinion. And learn to take criticism. That's an even bigger issue than your veteran and grammar obsession.

[aero]

User input is pretty much useless in direct staff decisions on community matters, otherwise the staff forum would be open for everyone to contribute to community decisions. Now as Blue is implying here it's that the staff doesn't care about what users have to say. This is far from the truth because not adhering to popular opinion on community decisions such as rule enforcement, posting, and planning is not the same as not listening to opinions ABOUT those decisions.

For example you can either praise or condemn the staff for banning user XYZ. The input doesn't matter to the decision itself because staff decisions are less of a democracy and more of a judgement on what has and hasn't worked, and what can be done to prevent more users like XYZ from coming about. The popular opinion of the community comes into play with the judgement of what has and hasn't worked. So input is necessary, it's just that it's not the driving force that's used to keep things running. Instead, it guides decisions made by the staff to make better decisions on what is best for the community rather than just picking and choosing rules and standards that only make our jobs easier and doesn't really help the community grow like it has been.

5. Like I've said, we're going to have disagreements, but you really need to stop taking things in this community so seriously. Someone gets warned HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWFUL WE NEED REFORM. Calm down.

No one ever overreacted to a warning like that. Stop exaggerating.

Well knux is starting a different forum again, and the 20 ought people who are anti-Joey seems to be a topic of interest so I don't think that's too big of an exaggeration to be honest.

[Superiorstar]

There is a clear difference between criticism and a command Joey. I never got the impression that anyone is telling you how to do what. Right now you make the impression that you are desperately trying to defend yourself and your staff. Of course the final decision is up to you, but please, at least act as if you care about your userbase and its opinion. And learn to take criticism. That's an even bigger issue than your veteran and grammar obsession.

I think this got out of hand a long time ago, do yourself a favor Joey and lock this before they put you down.

[Shadow Yoshi]

at least act as if you care about your userbase and its opinion. And learn to take criticism.

This is kind of absurd.

I'm not about to sit here and have you make me look like someone who doesn't care about his userbase and can't take criticism. See one of the things I mentioned in my previous post - just because we don't automatically implement your suggestion/do exactly what you say doesn't mean we're not listening to you. It doesn't mean we don't care about you or your opinion. It doesn't mean we can't take criticism.

Stop trying to make me look like something I'm not. I, along with the rest of the staff, put up with a lot of shit from this community. I'm not going to allow this.

I think this got out of hand a long time ago, do yourself a favor Joey and lock this before they put you down.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't need your help in making decisions for myself.

[zioy]

My two cents: arguments aren't going to get us anywhere tbh. Joey may not be the best person to lead the forum, but he's pretty darn good at it. He's not perfect, but neither is any other person. I feel the staff may be a bit on the strict side here, but it's better than it was back in '09 and '10. Trust me, I may not have been there as a user, but the Wayback Machine combined with downloading stuff for SMBX before I joined says a lot.
The only SMBX forum with better staff than this one so far was NSMBX in my opinion. The staff there was essentially the staff at Knux's at the time, minus the inactive moderators and minus the bad staff overall. But this isn't a thread to talk about the past. This is a thread about moving on. Let's move on, guys. Go with the flow. Let's see where the community goes. It won't die. There will always be the Knux who will have the backup forum when CaptainTrek's goes down. That's a guarantee.

[MistakesWereMade]

My two cents: arguments aren't going to get us anywhere tbh. Joey may not be the best person to lead the forum, but he's pretty darn good at it. He's not perfect, but neither is any other person. I feel the staff may be a bit on the strict side here, but it's better than it was back in '09 and '10. Trust me, I may not have been there as a user, but the Wayback Machine combined with downloading stuff for SMBX before I joined says a lot.
The only SMBX forum with better staff than this one so far was NSMBX in my opinion. The staff there was essentially the staff at Knux's at the time, minus the inactive moderators and minus the bad staff overall. But this isn't a thread to talk about the past. This is a thread about moving on. Let's move on, guys. Go with the flow. Let's see where the community goes. It won't die. There will always be the Knux who will have the backup forum when CaptainTrek's goes down. That's a guarantee.

1-Arguments always lead to something, the "arguments aren't going to get us anywhere" bullshit is just an excuse that people use when they/their side lost an argument.
2-There is literally never going to be a "good admin", no offense to joey, but all of the admins will be equally as shitty in one way or another, doesn't matter if you go through like the ten billion users in this community.

[zioy]

"Arguments lead nowhere" is more of me trying to say "Arguments don't go anywhere good" in less words.

[MistakesWereMade]

"Arguments lead nowhere" is more of me trying to say "Arguments don't go anywhere good" in less words.

If the current situation is garbage for some people, what harm could an argument do?

Besides, arguments are supposed to lead to a solution, they will always side something, even if it's bad or good. The entirety of the userbase has always found something to bitch about throughout the course of the years.

[zioy]

"Arguments lead nowhere" is more of me trying to say "Arguments don't go anywhere good" in less words.

If the current situation is garbage for some people, what harm could an argument do?

An argument, in this case, could lead to some extended bans if some people continue to argue. Arguments have the tendency to escalate before they die out.

[MistakesWereMade]

"Arguments lead nowhere" is more of me trying to say "Arguments don't go anywhere good" in less words.

If the current situation is garbage for some people, what harm could an argument do?

An argument, in this case, could lead to some extended bans if some people continue to argue. Arguments have the tendency to escalate before they die out.

That's not the argument's fault, it's the affected people's fault for having suboptimal points/pulling the "I WILL NOT FUCKING LOSE THIS ARGUMENT" and using every dumb thing they can think of to continue.

[zioy]

Fair enough. However, an argument is basically the people arguing, someone continuing an argument that was supposed to end is basically the natural tendency of people to say "I'M NOT DEAD YET" even though its obvious they lost the argument.
(And yes I am tired so sorry if I rambled on there)

[Superiorstar]

Jesus Christ you people are still complaining? has the Halloween air gotten to you people? You know what this needs? It is call shutting up and moving on, your bitching of the staff isn't gonna help inprove it yet you people still think this is some kind of "LET"S TALK ABOUT THE STAFF THEN GET THEM MAD" game.
People, this topic is pretty much a done deal, so let's just forget it.

[zioy]

Jesus Christ you people are still complaining? has the Halloween air gotten to you people? You know what this needs? It is call shutting up and moving on, your bitching of the staff isn't gonna help inprove it yet you people still think this is some kind of "LET"S TALK ABOUT THE STAFF THEN GET THEM MAD" game.
People, this topic is pretty much a done deal, so let's just forget it.

Calm down, the civil part of this discussion is underway.

[RudeGuy]

Jesus Christ you people are still complaining? has the Halloween air gotten to you people? You know what this needs? It is call shutting up and moving on, your bitching of the staff isn't gonna help inprove it yet you people still think this is some kind of "LET"S TALK ABOUT THE STAFF THEN GET THEM MAD" game.
People, this topic is pretty much a done deal, so let's just forget it.

1. Calm down
2. Can you explain me why this topic is a done deal? I can see that there is still a valid point of why this topic is still on (not gonna explaining it, you can see it by just reading the other posts or just the first post) and I don't think it should be locked.

[silent_]

There is a clear difference between criticism and a command Joey. I never got the impression that anyone is telling you how to do what. Right now you make the impression that you are desperately trying to defend yourself and your staff. Of course the final decision is up to you, but please, at least act as if you care about your userbase and its opinion. And learn to take criticism. That's an even bigger issue than your veteran and grammar obsession.

I think this got out of hand a long time ago, do yourself a favor Joey and lock this before they put you down.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, but topics should not get punished. Users should.

My two cents: arguments aren't going to get us anywhere tbh.

That's not entirely true. As long as they're civil and don't lead to a flamewar or anything, arguments aren't really a bad thing.

See, if arguments weren't allowed, debates shouldn't be allowed, either, because they're essentially the same thing, except debates are actually a bit more intelligent and serious I guess.

Besides, arguments are supposed to lead to a solution, they will always side something, even if it's bad or good. The entirety of the userbase has always found something to bitch about throughout the course of the years.

Entirely true.

Jesus Christ you people are still complaining? has the Halloween air gotten to you people? You know what this needs? It is call shutting up and moving on, your bitching of the staff isn't gonna help inprove it yet you people still think this is some kind of "LET"S TALK ABOUT THE STAFF THEN GET THEM MAD" game.
People, this topic is pretty much a done deal, so let's just forget it.

Please just shut up. Not only are you not helping, but you're giving a good reason to lock this topic, and that's the last thing I want. So stop it.

[Shadow Yoshi]

I wasn't criticizing the parts that were defending me.