Racism

[Mable]

First of for everyone who doesn't know what that is:

Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person. It has influenced wars, slavery, the formation of nations, and legal codes.

During the past 500-1000 years, racism on the part of Western powers toward non-Westerners has had a far more significant impact on history than any other form of racism (such as racism among Western groups or among Easterners, such as Asians, Africans, and others). The most notorious example of racism by the West has been slavery, particularly the enslavement of Africans in the New World (slavery itself dates back thousands of years). This enslavement was accomplished because of the racist belief that Black Africans were less fully human than white Europeans and their descendants.

This belief was not "automatic": that is, Africans were not originally considered inferior. When Portuguese sailors first explored Africa in the 15th and 16th centuries, they came upon empires and cities as advanced as their own, and they considered Africans to be serious rivals. Over time, though, as African civilizations failed to match the technological advances of Europe, and the major European powers began to plunder the continent and forcibly remove its inhabitants to work as slave laborers in new colonies across the Atlantic, Africans came to be seen as a deficient "species," as "savages." To an important extent, this view was necessary to justify the slave trade at a time when Western culture had begun to promote individual rights and human equality. The willingness of some Africans to sell other Africans to European slave traders also led to claims of savagery, based on the false belief that the "dark people" were all kinsmen, all part of one society - as opposed to many different, sometimes warring nations.

One important feature of racism, especially toward Blacks and immigrant groups, is clear in attitudes regarding slaves and slavery. Jews are usually seen by anti-Semites as subhuman but also superhuman: devilishly cunning, skilled, and powerful. Blacks and others are seen by racists as merely subhuman, more like beasts than men. If the focus of anti-Semitism is evil, the focus of racism is inferiority -- directed toward those who have sometimes been considered to lack even the ability to be evil (though in the 20th century, especially, victims of racism are often considered morally degraded).

In the second half of the 19th century, Darwinism, the decline of Christian belief, and growing immigration were all perceived by many white Westerners as a threat to their cultural control. European and, to a lesser degree, American scientists and philosophers devised a false racial "science" to "prove" the supremacy of non-Jewish whites. While the Nazi annihilation of Jews discredited most of these supposedly scientific efforts to elevate one race over another, small numbers of scientists and social scientists have continued throughout the 20th century to argue the inborn shortcomings of certain races, especially Blacks. At the same time, some public figures in the American Black community have championed the supremacy of their own race and the inferiority of whites - using nearly the identical language of white racists.
All of these arguments are based on a false understanding of race; in fact, contemporary scientists are not agreed on whether race is a valid way to classify people. What may seem to be significant "racial" differences to some people - skin color, hair, facial shape - are not of much scientific significance. In fact, genetic differences within a so-called race may be greater than those between races. One philosopher writes: "There are few genetic characteristics to be found in the population of England that are not found in similar proportions in Zaire or in China….those differences that most deeply affect us in our dealings with each other are not to any significant degree biologically determined."

Wiki Informations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

Discuss let's see how the Smbx People can handle this discussion. Turn this into a Flamewar and you failed me and lost all respect you all should be able to handle discussions like this.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Racism obviously actually isn't part of the SMBX community, and people who say it is doesn't actually know what real racism is

[Magna]

Thanks for the history lesson.

Racism is bad and shouldn't be allowed, but it's okay to do it between friends.

[Karl Marx]

Its hard to be racist here as we're all race-blind

I don't know the race of most if not all the users here, and that's perfectly OK

[aero]

Way to focus exclusively on western racism, and ignore the details pertaining to racist views. I can tell you right now that Africans weren't forcefully removed, and that they were selling (and buying) their own people. Also I'd like to know who this philosopher who wrote "There are few genetic characteristics to be found in the population of England that are not found in similar proportions in Zaire or in China…" since it's pretty disingenuous to say when talking about race when each race shares most of their genetic code with African Apes.

Links:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/afric ... ter2.shtml

[Dash]

For me, the word "Racism" is racist.
Human races don't exist, we are all practically the same race.

Just my opinion.

[Vinyl Scratch]

For me, the word "Racism" is racist.
Human races don't exist, we are all practically the same race.

Just my opinion.

I don't think you really understand what racism actually is
Racism is a word, thus, cannot be racist, as it doesn't have any ethnicity, culture differences (If you're gonna be a smartass about this I swear to god), ect ect..

Plus, ignorance isn't an opinion yo

[Mable]

How is racism racist.

[aero]

For me, the word "Racism" is racist.
Human races don't exist, we are all practically the same race.

Just my opinion.

Disregarding cultural, and ethnic differences between people doesn't really help anyone. In fact it can sometimes blow up in your face and cause bigger problems.

[Vinyl Scratch]

I, for one, am not for racism. I got into a...heated discussion, let's say, with a certain member when he kept saying the racist word for African (I dare not say it) and he just said it to annoy another user even after he was told it was offensive to him.

Pretty sure that certain member was using it as a joke, which people took too seriously
After all, it's your choice to be offended by something or not, and since he never uses it in a harmful manner, then you probably shouldn't take it too seriously as well

[Shadow Yoshi]

I don't get what the point of this topic is. Are you discussing racism as a concept? Are you asking who in the community is racist?

[silent_]

I don't get what the point of this topic is.

I'm pretty sure it's to discuss racism as a whole.

[Magician]

Racism, the belief itself, is complete bullshit in any circumstance. It's always been, and I've always acknowledged that, but I've never been affected by it personally, so it's hard for me to understand what it's like for someone who is a victim of it and I'm always interested in hearing what they have to say about it, especially if it's with regards to something I've done in ignorance.

I, for one, am not for racism. I got into a...heated discussion, let's say, with a certain member when he kept saying the racist word for African (I dare not say it) and he just said it to annoy another user even after he was told it was offensive to him.

Pretty sure that certain member was using it as a joke, which people took too seriously
After all, it's your choice to be offended by something or not, and since he never uses it in a harmful manner, then you probably shouldn't take it too seriously as well

Everyone has a button and if someone asks a person not to push it and they then do it deliberately, they're being an asshole whether they mean harm by it or not. That shouldn't even be a controversial statement.

Remember what you're referring to, and what it calls back to, before you tell people not to take something too seriously. Moreover, taking something "too seriously" isn't ever an incorrect response, considering that humour is obviously subjective and that blatantly calling back racism isn't the kind of humour that's going to suit a lot of people.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Racism, the belief itself, is complete bullshit in any circumstance. It's always been, and I've always acknowledged that, but I've never been affected by it personally, so it's hard for me to understand what it's like for someone who is a victim of it and I'm always interested in hearing what they have to say about it, especially if it's with regards to something I've done in ignorance.

I, for one, am not for racism. I got into a...heated discussion, let's say, with a certain member when he kept saying the racist word for African (I dare not say it) and he just said it to annoy another user even after he was told it was offensive to him.

Pretty sure that certain member was using it as a joke, which people took too seriously
After all, it's your choice to be offended by something or not, and since he never uses it in a harmful manner, then you probably shouldn't take it too seriously as well

Everyone has a button and if someone asks a person not to push it and they then do it deliberately, they're being an asshole whether they mean harm by it or not. That shouldn't even be a controversial statement.

Remember what you're referring to, and what it calls back to, before you tell people not to take something too seriously. Moreover, taking something "too seriously" isn't ever an incorrect response, considering that humour is obviously subjective and that blatantly calling back racism isn't the kind of humour that's going to suit a lot of people.

Forum at it's best with "humor" and "racism"

[aero]

I, for one, am not for racism. I got into a...heated discussion, let's say, with a certain member when he kept saying the racist word for African (I dare not say it) and he just said it to annoy another user even after he was told it was offensive to him.

I'm assuming you're talking about Nien since he's the only one who would call people that casually. Nigger is just a word, and he is just trying to troll you (well you specifically considering his avatar) so telling him it's offensive isn't going to do much good since that seems to be the goal here. Oh and uh, it's a slur for negro which actually used to be the more polite term as opposed to calling someone "black" until the 1970s Civil Rights Movement took place, it doesn't mean African in case you didn't know.

[Magician]

Forum at it's best with "humor" and "racism"

If you were trying to crosspost that quote to Forum's Funniest Posts, you failed.

If I can disagree with you on something without being a dick about it, you can at least not make a barely sensical post just to muse publicly about your personal incredulity towards some legitimate points. There's probably a much better way to settle differences than that.

If you're trying to imply that trolling someone with racial slurs doesn't mean you're actually "racist" as defined by some sources, I'm well aware of that. I just don't think that "he's only purposely trying to piss you off!" condones the behaviour either way, and I'd still argue that it pertains to the thread because whether or not its use is racist is at best a point of contention.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Forum at it's best with "humor" and "racism"

If you were trying to crosspost that quote to Forum's Funniest Posts, you failed.

If I can disagree with you on something without being a dick about it, you can at least not make a barely sensical post just to muse publicly about your personal incredulity towards some legitimate points. There's probably a much better way to settle differences than that.

If you're trying to imply that trolling someone with racial slurs doesn't mean you're actually "racist" as defined by some sources, I'm well aware of that. I just don't think that "he's only purposely trying to piss you off!" condones the behaviour either way, and I'd still argue that it pertains to the thread because whether or not its use is racist is at best a point of contention.

My favorite thing about forums is people blowing things incredibly out of proportion and only getting half of something right

It's hilarious to see people taking things way too seriously

The best part was that the "quote" was actually purely coincidental

[Magician]

Quoting myself:

you can at least not make a barely sensical post just to muse publicly about your personal incredulity

Vinyl, using a message board properly generally doesn't involve being vague and waiting for people to figure out what you even mean while you act pompous when they get it wrong. The fact is, when you make a post like that, I'm left to figure out what you actually meant, which is why I asked you not to do it. You haven't fully provided the means for anyone to get the "something" that you're referring to completely right, half right, or anything. I don't even know what "something" is—it could refer to your posts themselves, or the specific situation described in the first one I responded to (which, to be clear, I was only applying general terms to). I don't know what I'm supposedly blowing incredibly out of proportion except that that accusation ironically blows out of proportion anything I've said on the matter. It's not as if I flipped out or pointed fingers. I'm simply pointing out that some actions deserve to be criticized.

Using a forum also doesn't involve having used the quote button and then blaming the quote as if it was this surprising random happenstance when you realize it affected the conveyance of your post.

[Vinyl Scratch]

I'm not really acting "pompous" that much m8
Also, it should be pretty obvious what I meant about half-right, as in you talked about 1 thing I said, but not the other one
You're seemingly blowing things out of proportion because you seem to make posts that are a bit longer than they should be as if you need to overcomplicate things, it shouldn't be that hard to explain yourself

[Magician]

You were being smug and condescending, and addressing people by talking about them in the third person, and using custom smilies with a fedora—you're right, that's not pompous at all.

It's not hard to explain myself; I'm pretty good at it! What I'm not good at is interpreting lazy posts that appeal to ridicule more than they deliver any actual points, and yeah it takes me a bit longer to break things down for a person who is apparently willing to attack my credibility on the basis of arguments like "5 sentences or more = overcomplicated", "post length = difficulty involved in writing it", and "complicated = severe" while taking no responsibility for the interpretation of their own posts, as if communication isn't supposed to be a two-way street. I mean I guess the latter is consistent with your preliminary remarks on what we were talking about so I'm not really surprised by your behaviour, but this entire resulting conversation demonstrates the inherent problem with the notion that how something is received is always the reader's fault, despite the writer not putting forth any effort into conveying themselves.

If you wanna talk about me not addressing what you say, take your own advice first. The only time "you" addressed anything was when I took a shot in the dark as to what you were trying to say, then wrote out that argument for you, and then addressed it, to which you had nothing to add. I didn't do the same with the "other one" because, again, I have no idea what that is. And I'd love to see you even TRY to explain how any of this is obvious without just more circular reasoning from you.

And in my own defence (not that this was at all relevant because it was more about how I post than the subject at hand), speaking at length is not the same thing as speaking longer than necessary. Just because conciseness involves the shortening of posts to make them more streamlined, does not mean that the result of streamlining a post will always be a 17 syllable poem that manages to address every single thought with beauty and flair. Sometimes I just can't condense all my thoughts into four sentences or less, but at least my posts are actually clear.