Why the level submissions system is fucking bullshit

[Hawkeyeone]

Let's start a revolution, motherfuckers.

The levels forum has always been a nice, free place to share SMBX levels. Here, it has never been. This is thanks to the fact that submitting a level here is rather complicated.

Here's how the whole level submitting thing works here: You post your level topic in level submissions. After posting it, you cannot see the topic and it will be sent to the mods and admins to look over. They can choose to do anything they want with it, but If your level gets accepted, it will be placed in the Levels forum. derpy derp derp. Somewhere in this sentence, there is a problem. Do you see it? Simple. They can choose to do anything they want with it. Although it says in the rules and stuff that mods and admins have to notify you when your level gets accepted, they don't have to notify you if they delete it, meaning you'll sometimes wonder what the fuck is going on.

Another problem is this- The levels have to be judged. This isn't bad or anything, but what about joke levels? You know, the levels that are there just for laughing your ass off? In the level submission rules, it says "Joke levels are approved to only some extent. If it's just spam, don't expect it to be approved." What the rules is basically saying is that joke levels are allowed, but the level itself can't be mostly spam. This sounds totally fine. But let me tell you a little story...

Lately, I've been trying to get a level submitted. This is, what you would think, a joke level. This level is called, "MY DICK IN YOUR FACE". Why? Because it's a joke level. So on Saturday, I submit the level. After a while, nothing happens. I ask Joey about my level in the IRC, and he said he didn't accept it. He didn't give every reason, I believe, but he did say that one of the reasons he didn't accept the level was, and get this, the title. So yes, Joey, did not accept my level because of something it's perfectly fine to have- a title that sounds like an average joke level title. I ask Valtteri if he can submit it, but he says no. No reason why, just no. Then I PM reghrhre. The reason I PM'd reghrhre was because he wasn't on the IRC at the time. Reghrhre comes back to me, saying, "what level"? And then, I repost the level. Reghrhre comes back to me saying this.

I don't see any level from you whatsoever, I checked both the Levels and Level Submissions forum too, someone probably already tried it but rejected it then

And so, that's when I knew someone was deleting my level. Fucking Joey. That is, he would probably be most likely to do something like that. But, the heavy rules on joke levels aren't even the worst part about the level system. What is it?

Mods and admins totally bypass it.

You see, if you're a global moderator or an admin, you can post in any regular forum. You know what this means? Being able to post levels in the levels forum without restrictions. This is seriously the most unbalanced thing I've ever seen on an SMBX forum. "Yes, let's have a level submissions system to keep things in order. Oh, us? We're the admins! We don't need to follow any of this bullshit!"

Just make the Levels forum what it should have been- a free place to share SMBX levels- and everyone will be happy.

~Hawkeyeone

[zlaker]

Kinda sucks. There is other people who has levels that isn't reveiwed yet. The admins should fix that. Meow..

[Shadow Yoshi]

I will respond to more of this later when I'm not on my phone, but I will say that judges are required to let you know why your level was disapproved. You were supposed to be notified about your disapproval; I'm not sure why you didn't get the message.

I'll tell you right now, also, that your attitude is not helping your case at all and is just making me want to lock this topic. Knock it off, please.

[Emral]

Pretty sure the rules state that the judges need to inform the level designer if the level gets rejected so he can improve on it and send a fixed version of it in. I agree that deleting your level without letting you know was kind of a dick move and shouldn't happen again. Also, Valtteri stated in the Level Submission rules that you shouldn't count on joke levels to get accepted. So there's that.

You know, the levels that are there just for laughing your ass off?

Maybe that's just me but every joke level I've seen so far wasn't funny in any way.

Fucking Joey.

Why him?

Mods and admins totally bypass it.

Pretty sure that's just been a mistake by masterbr0s who accidentally posted into the Levels forum. Beyond, for example, had his level visible in the level submissions for weeks.

The only thing that's really wrong with the level submissions is the lack of judges and the resulting weeks of waiting. But you can't blame the admins for that because it's the lack of volunteers that does it.

[Fuyu]

I'd like to point out though, I find the fact that only staff members and level judges are allowed to check threads on the level submissions subforum rather disadvantageous for the forum popularity and the level's submitter. These kind of things can happen every time since we human are not perfect, and due to that we can harm someone's feelings, to which I think that letting regular users see those levels would be better. After all, there's nothing to hide, is there?

Besides, never thought this system would bring any kind of benefit to be honest.

[Darkonius Mavakar]

The major flaw is that we can't see our levels once submitted it, think about it, maybe someone nweds to fux something or whatever

[Chill Pingu]

this sysem was created to guarantee that all levels become reviewed and that level judges actually do their job. if we go back to the old system none of the levels would get a review.
however, this new system has some flaws, like is one hawkeyeone just mentioned. also joey, sorry to say that but there's no reason to ban hawkeyeone's level just because of the title. you must realize that this is the smbx community and nobody in this fucking community cares about swearing.

[Shadow Yoshi]

Let's start a revolution, motherfuckers.

k

The levels forum has always been a nice, free place to share SMBX levels. Here, it has never been. This is thanks to the fact that submitting a level here is rather complicated.

Not really. The system is fine, one just has to read the threads in which it's explained.

Here's how the whole level submitting thing works here: You post your level topic in level submissions. After posting it, you cannot see the topic and it will be sent to the mods and admins to look over. They can choose to do anything they want with it, but If your level gets accepted, it will be placed in the Levels forum. derpy derp derp. Somewhere in this sentence, there is a problem. Do you see it? Simple. They can choose to do anything they want with it. Although it says in the rules and stuff that mods and admins have to notify you when your level gets accepted, they don't have to notify you if they delete it, meaning you'll sometimes wonder what the fuck is going on.

It's not just mods and admins that are handling this, it's Level Judges as well. Nobody can do "anything they want with a level"; there's protocol for how we have to handle things. We do have to notify you if we disapprove your topic, and I did. I'm not sure if the message got to you properly, but I do know that you were supposed to be notified about the disapproval.

Another problem is this- The levels have to be judged. This isn't bad or anything, but what about joke levels? You know, the levels that are there just for laughing your ass off? In the level submission rules, it says "Joke levels are approved to only some extent. If it's just spam, don't expect it to be approved." What the rules is basically saying is that joke levels are allowed, but the level itself can't be mostly spam. This sounds totally fine. But let me tell you a little story...

Lately, I've been trying to get a level submitted. This is, what you would think, a joke level. This level is called, "MY DICK IN YOUR FACE". Why? Because it's a joke level. So on Saturday, I submit the level. After a while, nothing happens. I ask Joey about my level in the IRC, and he said he didn't accept it. He didn't give every reason, I believe, but he did say that one of the reasons he didn't accept the level was, and get this, the title. So yes, Joey, did not accept my level because of something it's perfectly fine to have- a title that sounds like an average joke level title. I ask Valtteri if he can submit it, but he says no. No reason why, just no. Then I PM reghrhre. The reason I PM'd reghrhre was because he wasn't on the IRC at the time. Reghrhre comes back to me, saying, "what level"? And then, I repost the level. Reghrhre comes back to me saying this.

Joke levels are only allowed to an extent, and seeing a level named "MY DICK IN YOUR FACE" makes me want to not play it (also I remember there being something wrong with the first screenshot you posted that, if I remember correctly, looked kind of like a spam level; I could be wrong there). Valtteri probably thought the same thing upon reading the title, not to mention the fact that joke levels here are almost always bad and not funny. If joke levels were generally funny, then "MY DICK IN YOUR FACE" would've likely been given a chance - but how are we supposed to expect a joke level to be good with that kind of a name?

[quote="Hawkeyeone"

I don't see any level from you whatsoever, I checked both the Levels and Level Submissions forum too, someone probably already tried it but rejected it then

And so, that's when I knew someone was deleting my level. Fucking Joey. That is, he would probably be most likely to do something like that.[/quote]
You're not helping your case.

But, the heavy rules on joke levels aren't even the worst part about the level system. What is it?

Mods and admins totally bypass it.

You see, if you're a global moderator or an admin, you can post in any regular forum. You know what this means? Being able to post levels in the levels forum without restrictions. This is seriously the most unbalanced thing I've ever seen on an SMBX forum. "Yes, let's have a level submissions system to keep things in order. Oh, us? We're the admins! We don't need to follow any of this bullshit!"

Can you provide examples? Because nobody has done this.

[Fuyu]

Joey, I do not have anything against you, but if you don't recall it correctly or even tested the level you're practically judging the book by its cover. Joke levels almost always have such names, and you should already know that. Last joke level I played was called "GONNA S*CK YOUR MAMA!", and I quite enjoyed it.

So there are two points I'd like to state. First, you could at least test the level. And second, if a level is fun or not depends on the player, not someone who already played it, which it's clearly not your case judging by your post.

[Shadow Yoshi]

I understand, Natsu, except I really don't want to approve (much less play) a level with that kind of a title. Sure, I may be judging a book by its cover, but I'd be willing to give it a chance if it weren't for the title. Hawkeyeone already reuploaded it under a different title anyway, so I'm not just going to disapprove it again.

(to reiterate, Hawk should have gotten a PM or something telling him his level was disapproved; I have no idea why he didn't)

[silent_]

I dislike the concept too, expect I don't like to have that vulgar attitude when I get furious like that over a silly problem. Maybe that's why you're practically not getting any support on this thread, just something I'd like to say as some respectful (hopefully) advice. What I'm saying is that it's neat to have, but with a minor flaw that irritates me, you can't view your own level in the process. Every time I submit something, I get paranoid that an incident happened and I accidentally forgot to hit the submit button, or it can't be viewed.

Regarding blaming Joey for not accepting your level; that could be selfish, and it could be true; the way it's selfish is because you expect every single thing to be accepted; and it could partially be true coz Joey didn't even test the level and put it up to his disapproval just because he wasn't a fan of the title. But, regardless, even if it IS a joke level, a title like that really isn't anything to be proud of; I personally dislike cursing myself, but the fact that you make titles have curse words bugs me, because it's excessive and really doesn't end at any limit by you.

Conclusively, I would request that you would be calmer from now on, and just take a breather and maybe modify your title of this topic a bit and just go with the flow with the staff, even if they're occasionally trustworthy at least expect them to be skeptic sometimes, and don't flame them and act like its their fault when, well, it COULD be theirs, but still, saying that would discourage them a bit. Anyway, my message is I disagree with the level system, maybe it could be removed, perhaps not, I'm not angry about it, it's just that I'm applying a slight recommendation; not sure how the rest of you feel about that, however.

Props.

[FallingSnow]

Once again, I'd like to reiterate that we would love to have more level judges. We aren't asking for essays in your reviews but enough to point out the good and bad points in the levels.

A refresh on some of the rules for reviewing which should have been made very clear to the judges:
Mods cannot do "anything they want" with the levels.
Users must be PMed upon disapproval of a submitted levels with a review or reasoning of disapproval.
Any mods auto-accepting their levels have done so via accident (or in cases like The Valtteri Island(s) episode, it's something that would be auto-approved anyway. Episode restrictions are very lax).

[TheMMM]

I have a suggestion. Perhaps if you don't wish to review levels with crude titles, you should put in the rules for level submissions that levels with crude language aren't allowed. That way, you'll be perfectly justified in refusing to review a level for having a crude title.

[Fuyu]

What should be discussed here isn't his level anymore, as it has been submitted again with another name and it's being tested judging by what Joey said. On the other hand, I'd like the staff to consider our desire of removing this feature that forbids us from viewing our posts, there is no point of that, and makes things even more complex.

About level judges, it is something that has been happening before the closure of NSMBX, and it's that level judges from time to time don't feel like reviewing and it's something that we can't avoid. They are humans like us and as such they have times when they get bored of reviewing or in this case forget to do all sort of thigns, unless you're a reviewing machine, no offence to those who feel that way. My point is that there should be a different system.

[Shadow Yoshi]

If you don't see your level in the Levels forum or haven't received a PM about its disapproval, that means it's still in the submissions forum. You know those messages that appear after you hit the button to submit your post? If it says "Your message has been posted and is awaiting approval", that means your level is there. I understand there's safety in knowing exactly where the topic is, and you're welcome to PM us at any time about the status of your level.

I also think I'll test out the approval system later today - I think there's a problem with users not getting notified via the board software.

[Raster]

A level is not defined only by its gameplay and aesthetics. A level is also defined by its title, which, in this case, is not suitable. Admins and Moderators have the privileges of Level Judges (as explained by Joey in one of his posts,) so your argument is ungrounded.

Speaking of your attitude, I do think you should calm down a bit and make better posts. We respect you and we deserve the same respect from you. Making such posts because 'this is the SMBX community' (to make things clear, I'm not only directing this at Hawkeyeone) won't help your argument seem any more compelling.

[Lolkat]

If you don't mind me coming in here.
I don't see a point in having this submissions system. A system that in my opinion would be better would be to have the levels forum always open and always be able to view everyone's levels they have posted. This is better because everyone can play anyone's level at anytime and share feedback even 15 minutes after the level is posted. (THE OLD WAY) I don't see why we can't just have a nice old levels forum because I don't like waiting weeks time just to see my level finally reviewed. I'd rather have it have a chance to be reviewed by other players quickly as well. Just my opinion, I think this system is pretty much worthless and unneeded, and just too much pressure on the judges if there are so little of them to review the levels.

[Raster]

If you don't mind me coming in here.
I don't see a point in having this submissions system. A system that in my opinion would be better would be to have the levels forum always open and always be able to view everyone's levels they have posted. This is better because everyone can play anyone's level at anytime and share feedback even 15 minutes after the level is posted. (THE OLD WAY) I don't see why we can't just have a nice old levels forum because I don't like waiting weeks time just to see my level finally reviewed. I'd rather have it have a chance to be reviewed by other players quickly as well. Just my opinion, I think this system is pretty much worthless and unneeded, and just too much pressure on the judges if there are so little of them to review the levels.

I prefer the current system because it warrants that every level is reviewed sooner or later. Using the 'old system' will likely curse many levels to rot and never receive any reviews. And judges are judges to review because they like reviewing, not only because it's their job to do that.

[Shadow Yoshi]

I prefer the current system because it warrants that every level is reviewed sooner or later. Using the 'old system' will likely curse many levels to rot and never receive any reviews. And judges are judges to review because they like reviewing, not only because it's their job to do that.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why it's here.

Also, today I tested the approval system - turns out, you don't get a PM notification but rather an email notification when your level is approved/disapproved. I don't expect people to check their email that often, so this feature is kinda useless. Either way, if your level's approved you'll see it in the Levels forum, and if it's disapproved you'll get a PM sent to you with the review. I included the part about the name (and the fact that it's a joke level) in my disapproval message that got emailed to Hawkeyeone, thinking it would send a PM.

[Fuyu]

I prefer the current system because it warrants that every level is reviewed sooner or later. Using the 'old system' will likely curse many levels to rot and never receive any reviews. And judges are judges to review because they like reviewing, not only because it's their job to do that.

I don't see how the current system supports that ideal on any way to be honest, if we won't be able to check all threads at least the ones we make, we deserve to know what's discussed there as we are the creators of the level, it's our right to see what's discussed.