level designing tips?

[CAPEYOSHISMBX]

so is anyone here expirienced with level design?,cuz i could use some tips and tricks.

Added in 49 minutes 16 seconds:
i also strugggle with making levels in a good length i often make then pathetically short or to padded out in other words no matter how long a level of mine is it still feels quite bland snd short...

[SEDYON]

Hello,
If you want I can help you with the level design because it is MY strong point in the creation on SMBX2. I have experience in this domain and I love to help people with it.
If you want, you can also send me the files of your levels so that I can rework them.

So, what are your questions?

[Emral]

You might find these threads useful:
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=19096
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25488
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25489
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=22972

[CAPEYOSHISMBX]

okie dokie im still not expirienced in file sending but i'll get to it once i learn thank you very much and please send some feedback.

[Chanceux2]

You can share files with stuff like Mediafire, Google Drive, Mega, etc.

[SEDYON]

okie dokie im still not expirienced in file sending but i'll get to it once i learn thank you very much and please send some feedback.

Yes, you can use MediaFire (mediafire.com). When you arrive on the site you have to upload the file of your level. Click on "Upload", go to your game files (SMBX2/Data/Worlds/ExampleEpisode) and select your level (ExampleLevel.lvlx). Create a link once you are done (the site will offer it to you) copy it from the address bar and paste it in your message so I can access it.

[deice]

Yes, you can use MediaFire (mediafire.com). When you arrive on the site you have to upload the file of your level. Click on "Upload", go to your game files (SMBX2/Data/Worlds/ExampleEpisode) and select your level (ExampleLevel.lvlx). Create a link once you are done (the site will offer it to you) copy it from the address bar and paste it in your message so I can access it.

this won't allow them to transfer any of the level's custom assets. it's better to create a zip file with both the level file and the custom folder.

[SEDYON]

Yes, you can use MediaFire (mediafire.com). When you arrive on the site you have to upload the file of your level. Click on "Upload", go to your game files (SMBX2/Data/Worlds/ExampleEpisode) and select your level (ExampleLevel.lvlx). Create a link once you are done (the site will offer it to you) copy it from the address bar and paste it in your message so I can access it.

this won't allow them to transfer any of the level's custom assets. it's better to create a zip file with both the level file and the custom folder.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the custom folder

[CAPEYOSHISMBX]

btw can i get tips on how to do it myself and not grab my levels and give it to a professional i wanna learn.

[Emral]

btw can i get tips on how to do it myself and not grab my levels and give it to a professional i wanna learn.

You might find these threads useful:
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=19096
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25488
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=25489
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=22972

If you have specific questions, they are easier to answer than broad ones. Level design in the broad strokes is just a lot of practice and trying new things, seeing what works and what doesn't. The threads I linked contain a lot of common wisdom.

[SEDYON]

btw can i get tips on how to do it myself and not grab my levels and give it to a professional i wanna learn.

Ok, so ask me your questions!

[CAPEYOSHISMBX]

ok so first how can i make levels last a good amount without padding or stuffing in some obligatory sections? and secondly how do i get inspiration? because 99 outt of 100 times i try making something i either lose ideas quick or screw up something fundamental.

[SEDYON]

To find inspiration, you have to cheat a little in fact¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You can take inspiration from levels created by SMBX2 players or by Nintendo on their 2D Mario games. Once you've found a structure that inspires you, you need to find a theme to go with it and, if you wish, bring a specific mechanic to the level. Let me explain.
Let's imagine that you find The Invasion level really nice on The Invasion 2. You decide to take inspiration from it but not to copy it. So you're going to use the level structure (a flying fortress on which enemies land) but change the fortress into a spaceship moving vertically. Afterwards, you have to find a theme, for example a departure from the Earth to the Moon. Finally, you can add specific mechanics like cannons.
That's it for the first question

Added in 4 minutes 7 seconds:
However, I don't quite understand the other question. Can you be a little more understandable please?

P.S.: I am French so I use a translator, maybe it mistranslates your question

[CAPEYOSHISMBX]

ok so my levels are often really short and mostly filled out with repetitive sections or gimmicks introduced late into the levels so i get quite clueless when it comes to make levels last longer without it feeling forced.

[SEDYON]

Okay, so now you're asking me something that's pretty complicated to explain.
I would say the best solution is to take a theme with some specific elements (like a castle with Thwomps, Dry Bones, and lava) and try to exploit it in different ways in each section. The first section should be an introduction in the form of a traditional level (with the ground, the ? blocks, the bricks, the rooms, the lava... a classic thing) in which we will add the specific elements to the theme of the level (like some Dry Bones walking around with two or three Thwomps well visible and distributed in a fluid way). Once the introduction is done, we move on to the next section. Since the level takes place in a castle, the most logical way to transition between two sections is a door. This second section can be a lava rise. We can put a warning for the player like a Toad or a sign telling us that the lava will rise. After a while, the lava starts to rise and you have to climb as fast as possible to escape. During the escape, you can scatter Dry Bones and some Thwomps along the way. Once the highest point is reached, we take a door to reach another section. This one must be a little more "classic" but with a little more present element like Thwomps. You can also put a checkpoint at the beginning of this section, so the player will not have to go back to the section where the lava rises and he will have the feeling to have accomplished something. Finally, after finishing this penultimate section, you reach the boss. In the case of a fairly easy level, you can put a Boom Boom. The boss should not be very difficult if the level has been long. The door that leads to the boss must be different from the rest.
So much for the structure. Now let's talk about the route, the path.
If you want to make it pleasant, I advise you to create alternative passages (like one up and one down). The player should be able to move freely from one to the other, so that he can explore both and not miss anything. To do this, we can put a vine in some places or platforms. Then, the two passages must be joined together. The whole level should not be made of alternate passages. It must alternate between a single passage and alternative passages. We alternate with alternative passages . To avoid boredom, you can put coins in the empty areas so that the player can find interest in exploring them. Enemies must be distributed in a fluid way; there must be enough of them to create a challenge but not too many to overload the level and discourage the player. We also need to alternate between areas with enemies and areas without enemies, to have resting places, where the player can stop and relax before resuming the level. He should not be constantly oppressed. In addition to coins, ? blocks and bricks can be put in places that are a bit "flat". The player will be curious to know what's inside the blocks and you can also put them on top of each other for a little platforming. At regular intervals, you have to put a power-up. To complete the game, you can put holes and platforming phases above the void. Finally, let's talk about secret areas and dragon coins or other alternatives. The secret areas are accessible through a pipe, a door, a vine or something like that and must be well hidden in the level, but must not be invisible! The player should not find a secret place by chance, he should find it with clues, like a pipe with coins on top or with a special color, or an empty area with an invisible block between two decorations like bushes, flowers, statues... you get the idea. And as for the dragon coins, they have to be placed in places that are quite difficult to access. The player will be tempted. If he is not brave he will not take it, but if he is brave he will take the challenge and be rewarded.
Hopefully this will be useful to you.

[Emral]

You apply some good game design logic in your example, but I'm afraid it might not help the issue at hand. Reading about a fictional castle level and some design decisions will hardly increase one's pool of ideas for a given level.

Also some nitpicks:
- If you exploit a theme in all ways you can think of in every level you make, all your levels of a given theme will be very similar. Restraining yourself to keep the level focused beyond a theme is important as well
- "the most logical way to transition between two sections is a door" - not generally a rule
- "We can put a warning for the player like a Toad or a sign telling us that the lava will rise" - it's generally more elegant to introduce things without interrupting the flow of gameplay
- "This one must be a little more "classic" but with a little more present element like Thwomps." - also not a rule.
- "You can also put a checkpoint at the beginning of this section, so the player will not have to go back to the section where the lava rises and he will have the feeling to have accomplished something. " - note on checkpoints: if at any point a segment between checkpoints in your level feels like it's just a bit too long, it is probably a good idea to add an extra checkpoint. the more levels you make, the more you get a feeling for it, but also make sure other people play your levels to give feedback.
- "you reach the boss" - bosses are also not a hard and fast rule, even in castles. putting a boom boom is also hardly level design advice, as the fun part is crafting the arena he is fought in
- "If you want to make it pleasant, I advise you to create alternative passages (like one up and one down). The player should be able to move freely from one to the other, so that he can explore both and not miss anything." - a style of level that is pretty difficult to pull off. back in the day it used to be popular, but it caused players to explore BOTH paths and just roam an empty section after backtracking. i wouldn't say this equates to "pleasant" for the designer or the player
- "Enemies must be distributed in a fluid way; there must be enough of them to create a challenge but not too many to overload the level and discourage the player" - this is generally good advice, but does not apply to all styles of level design, and it feels like a weird thing to point out specifically in the context of breaking a section into two layers of elevation, as something more important for that style is that you dont accidentally ambush players on the other route (unless you specifically want to!)
- "To avoid boredom, you can put coins in the empty areas so that the player can find interest in exploring them" - players are more interested in interesting obstacles than trails of shinies. so far this description has not revealed much about how to craft such obstacles. it is also a lot more difficult in the type of section you describe than in a linear section.
- "In addition to coins, ? blocks and bricks can be put in places that are a bit "flat". The player will be curious to know what's inside the blocks and you can also put them on top of each other for a little platforming" - not a rule either. many players might also just be jaded and tired of having to bonk 5 blocks to know where the powerup is, and when there is no powerup they get frustrated. generally speaking, on a 2nd run through a level, only ?-blocks with valuable rewards are hit, so i often dont bother placing any at all. there are more fun activities for players to do
- "At regular intervals, you have to put a power-up." - technically also not a hard and fast rule. plenty of smbx levels and videogames in general do fairly well with only 1 hp on the player. different design style again
- "And as for the dragon coins, they have to be placed in places that are quite difficult to access" - remember that 5 dragon coins are worth 1 up. 1 dragon coin is roughly equal to 20 coins. it's not that big a deal. place however many dragon coins you want in whatever location you want imo. same for secrets: they dont have to be hidden or hard to find. they can just be funny or interesting ideas.


CAPEYOSHISMBX, if you want to learn more game design principles, check out the threads I linked. It's an entire field of study and impossible to compress into a single forum post. Watch the youtube videos, read the threads, and if something stands out to you as something that might be fun to try, try it!
Billy's advice of taking inspiration from others is also very valid. Creativity is just taking ideas and reshaping them. Many people in this community take ideas from Mario games, Sonic games, Kirby, Zelda, Metroid, Owlboy, Celeste, Hollow Knight, or whatever other things they like! Knowing how to turn them into level segments of your own takes time and practice. You get better at it with each level you make, because you learn more about what SMBX2 is and is not capable of.

Regarding level length: Don't feel pressured to make long levels. When I make levels, I base their length entirely on how many ideas I have for the level. If I run out of ideas, I try to end it as soon as possible. Making longer levels to step out of your comfort zone can be great practice, but so is making short levels where you put arbitrary restrictions on yourself. Make a level that only uses the Panser enemy, or one that uses a lot of spikes and different NPCs to jump across them. When you learn what specific tools work well for, you can make more varied obstacles as well.

[SEDYON]

Well, then I think we don't understand each other on some points
1/ What I meant was that in each level a different theme can be tackled (as long as you don't spread yourself too thin). It seems obvious that you have to restrict yourself in each level, it's one of the bases of the level design that I must have explained wrong.

2/ When I said "the most logical way to transition between two sections is a door", I meant in a castle level. However, for secret passages in the same level you can consider a pipe, an exit at the top of the screen or something else. Of course, in the levels I create, I won't only put doors to change sections.
3/ As for the Toads and panels, I was talking about the context of the level I'm talking about, when the lava is about to rise. You can also see it rising through the floor to warn the player, but that means it's slow enough that it doesn't instantly kill the player.

I read the rest of your huge paragraph, and in fact in general either I misspoke (which I'm sure I did since I use a translator and I'm not a very good writer), in fact I was presenting a level in a particular context (castle, and I also listed some general rules I think) and there are things you misinterpreted. I'd have to send you some of the levels I've made so that you can understand a little better. Because in your eyes I feel like a noob , but I'm really good at level design! I also have the impression that we don't have the same style of level design at all.

[CAPEYOSHISMBX]

wowie thanks for the tip im making a new level rn it's a seaside grassland with water below and floating swimmable bubbles above.

[SEDYON]

wowie thanks for the tip im making a new level rn it's a seaside grassland with water below and floating swimmable bubbles above.

Ok, good creation if I may say so!