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Walder's Library [Spike Spikegel]
Moderator: Userbase Moderators
Re: Walder [Saturn]Saturn is out, and the archives are now open to public!
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Re: Walder's Library [Saturn]Archived
Last edited by Archived on Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Walder's Library [Saturn]Can we get some pictures please?
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Re: Walder's Library [Saturn]Pictures of my project? Ah, I doubt I'll make a thread of it until I make considerable amount of progress; I just felt like mentioning it since Eclipsed brought up the level in his comment, which already has a download link here and a screenshot to showcase it here. |
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Re: Walder's Library [Saturn]Delicate Mountain is out, watch your step!
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Re: Walder's Library [Delicate]Pretty rad level (Delicate Mountain). Super good pace and some neat setups. I like the decision to make certain NPCs not move/spawn until the event is triggered, and the dragon coins provided a neat extra challenge. Few criticisms:
The block you gotta lower near the start and then ride down should maybe have a coin trail on top to lure players. First time I got there I thought that smartypants me dodged a bullet by not going up there, only to then be dropped into a pit. I was a bit bummed to find the secret star just lying in the open. Odyssey-like collectibles like that are a bit of an anticlimax if you ask me. Secret star sections are totally room for another little challenge which puts the main gimmick into a different context. Speaking of gimmicks, I wish pipecannons and the super spike block man were used more. Both were used just once which feels a bit like a throwaway. Other than that though, pretty rad. |
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Re: Walder's Library [Delicate]I appreciate the feedback, and I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the mountains! For now, I updated the level by putting some coins on the billfested pit cliff. As for the Secret Star area, I will admit that I (cheekily) changed the key and it's dedicated hole with a secret star in order to individualize the level; as I'm a bit short on mannpower to test my episode levels (One, to be exact which is myself) , haha. Of course even if that place had a key instead of a secret star, it would still be bland; thanks for bringing this up. I'll be sure to further crank up the neatness of that area with some fresh pipecannon and spike block man™ action. |
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Re: Walder's Library [Delicate]The Spike Block Man™ is a weird case cause he gets formally introduced after the secret star spot™. Just shoving in a small introduction near the start of the level for him and adding a few gaps on the platform he occupies later should remedy that.
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Re: Walder's Library [Delicate]But of course, a proper introduction is perhaps what matters foremost of all; I've been considering to do a bit of a revamp anyways; which will most likely give some chance for our hero of the level a chance to show themselves earlier as well.
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]i enjoy making forest levels
Spoiler: show |
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]Come on, how was I supposed to know it'll be back there? At least post it with the level to prevent confusion. P.S: Really? |
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]I think the level could've benefitted from a stronger focus on the beetle boys. I was kinda hoping for a pipe near the end to drop me on a row of parabeetles which would then carry me across a bottomless pit, with munchers and landmasses intercepting the ride, or there could've been spiked ones which add an extra hazard type to the level, allowing for more platforming combinations. I was a bit surprised to find a checkpoint and surprise fairy segment instead. Interesting choice, but the way it's executed creates a bit of a disconnect between the first and second half. The parabeetles are a bit underrepresented in this part when they could've been used well as obstacles during more vertically oriented sections. The level is good overall, I just feel like it needed an extra step in its progression and a more cohesive structure overall.
Sidenote: I think these wigglers were originally intended to have an angry wiggler on a hidden layer which appears when the happy one is killed? Feels kinda weird bopping them with a single jump. |
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]I mean you could have analyzed the thread before delivering the one liner; the comment is a bump for the main thread rather than a showcase itself. I actually noted the cohesiveness of the level during the production, but nonetheless your point is holding firm; the fairy segment could benefit from uniting with the paraboys gimmick in a better way, and the gimmicks themselves could have better presentation and usage. As for the nonexistent bottomless pit where the parabeetle carries you segment, I now do wish that segment actually existed, haha. It certainly would be interesting but perhaps what this also proves is that a mechanic that seems rather basic (the parabeetle carrying you) could also have a lot of depth into it with proper care. I attempted to give the mechanics more room instead of being throwaways since the spike block man days; but perhaps what also matters is to give each encounter uniqueness as well as well as the preservement of the general connectivity of a level. Furthermore I appreciate the feedback, my level design is still young and has a lot to learn; and I am quite happy to take advice regarding it. Spoiler: show |
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]You could definitely do a lot with Parabettles, but ultimately, as you stated, the main mechanic would eventually get boring. However, you could have sprinkled a bit more of Parabettle gameplay. Introducing Gameplay Mechanics: show |
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]To be fair the moment a gimmick comes close to becoming stale is the moment the level would also end, so that's not really the issue imo
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Re: Walder's Library [Skuld]Yeah I've not found anything that felt in any way "throwaway", so that's a Good Job.
Many people who're still gaining experience in design struggle with finding new ways to combine rather basic mechanics so the best advice I can give for that is to try to think of how you can create a satisfying climax and build the rest of the level to build up to it. For example, the parabeetle ride has a faster pacing than the rest of the level since you need to keep up with your ride a lot. So if the rest of the level is pretty tranquil it's a good way to get adrenaline flowing in the player and cap it off. Anything which puts the player under movement pressure over longer periods of time like this can be used well as a climax to a level, capping off all the level has done in a sort of final exam. Doesn't have to be necessarily hard, just satisfying to play to the point where when players see the exit come up shortly afterwards they don't think "huh, that was it?". Here's a few more parabeetle ideas which could ultimately culminate in this: -vertical section where parabeetles serve as crushing walls. could go well with p-balloon. -combining parabeetle's infinite flight with horizontal wrap to create a vertical section where you have to scale and/or avoid infinitely looping paratroopas. Perhaps you're being chased by them in one part and have to loop around to an opening where you can jump on them to reach the next part of the section. You can use the Beta 3 NPC-only blocks to create walls only the parabeetles can pass for this. -slower, big parabeetle which could be used for more generous stepping stones while on a ride with a small one -aforementioned spiky parabeetle which would require a spinjump, forcing players to change up their strategies a bit Parabeetles are, as you say, pretty basic by themselves so having a supplementary gimmick like the p-balloon works well in a way to enhance the content of the level without introducing more slight variations of the beetle, but the madman in the crowd will always go: "why not both? :)", and depending on how big of a madman you want to be, he's right. Slight variations don't produce a lot of clutter in a level's mechanics since they don't need complete individual introductions. Spoiler: show "I always try to choose one gimmick which the player is in control over, and one which he doesn't have control over but instead has to play around." For a visual example: Dry bones movement and enemy screen wrap (uncontrollable) and player screen wrapping and switches (controllable): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTQ1P9zDJLQ |
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