SMBX2 (2.0 Beta 3)

[Hoeloe]

What's wrong with wanting to honor Nintendo's wishes? I'm serious.

They haven't given us any "wishes", if they did, we would.

The thing is, Nintendo are busy. They have a lot to deal with themselves without giving specific permission (or not) to every single fan project in existence - there are a lot of them.

We're using something called "fair use" here. The way fair use works, in simple terms, is that you can make a thing using someone else's IP provided it falls into one of a few categories. It's mainly designed to protect things like reviews and parodies, but it's a bit of a grey area when it comes to fan projects like this. The way this sort of thing is usually handled is that the project is provided for free and with no income stream (i.e. the fan project creators do not sell or otherwise profit from the work), and work under the assumption of fair use unless the IP holder challenges it. Usually, most companies will just ignore these projects, because they do no harm, and are a fun way for fans to express their love for a specific franchise. Cases like AM2R are a bit more difficult, because it's now clear that Nintendo was working on their own Metroid 2 remake, and AM2R was in direct competition with that.

As it says on the blog, we believe we're protected under fair use with this project, but if Nintendo suggests otherwise (which they have not done, directly or indirectly), we will defer to their judgement.

Fair use is built so that 1) large IP holders like Nintendo don't have to spend hours upon hours of staff time responding to fan requests and 2) protecting people who seek to comment on, review, parody, etc. IPs.

The thing is, the idea of going on some sort of pre-emptive crusade to force Nintendo to legitimise projects like this is just asking for trouble. The SMBX community is not huge. Nintendo would literally not care if we all vanished and never bought another Nintendo product, but let's face it, that won't happen either. The other thing to keep in mind is that certain laws, like US trademark laws, FORCE companies to take action if they become aware of an infringement, even if they'd rather just let it be (See Scrolls vs The Elder Scrolls for an example of just such a ridiculous case). Most of the time, people on all sides are fully aware of how stupid these cases are, and in most cases, everyone would just prefer to let it slide. However, US trademark law means that if someone infringes a trademark and you DON'T protect it, you lose that trademark. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't think Nintendo is going to risk losing the trademark to Super Mario Bros. just to let a fangame stay alive.

In short, your suggestion is fairly childish and it will either result in no response, or Nintendo nuking the project to cover their own backs (even if they'd rather let it slide). By explicitly asking them, you draw Nintendo's official attention to the project, and once that happens it can only end with a complete shutdown. Note that I said "official" attention. It's likely at least some Nintendo staff are aware of it already, and believe they have enough deniability to put it out of mind from a legal perspective. Once you bring it to Nintendo's attention on official channels, that deniability may vanish, and Nintendo may be forced to respond in a way they'd rather not have to do, in order to avoid potential future backlash from less harmless uses of their IP. It's not a good idea to get the legal machine whirring, because once things get into that legal footing, things get messy very quickly, and not for "Nintendo's wishes".

[Amyrakunejo]

Correction: You only lose the trademark if a magistrate says so.
Also, donations do not count as profit; if one who likes what another does decides to 'chip-in' to help with whatever the money ends up being used for, that does not count as profit because there is not a guarantee that the donating party has the product/s being made by the donation recipient.
Actually, taking action can simply be going to court and asking for a deference, just so that the court can be made aware that neither side wishes to seek penal damages.
Yes, SMBX is a good example of fair use, but any videos posted to YouTube still run the risk of being taken down because of that faulty, outdated and thoroughly unnecessary DMCA nonsense. It is nonsense, no matter how it is spun.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

In SMB3, one could grab a Koopa Shell, kick it up, grab it, and find it to be upside down. I wonder how this could be implemented, even if it is just a graphical feature that just looks 'flashy'.

[Dr Vivian]

I loved being able to flip over shells, even if it didn't mean anything...I remember that happening when using the Raccoon Tail. Those ceiling spinies (SMBX npc idea!?) could be hit and grabbed with the tail, but you couldn't get them right side up because you couldn't jump on them.

[Radiance]

I loved being able to flip over shells, even if it didn't mean anything...I remember that happening when using the Raccoon Tail.

Afaik you can flip the kamikaze shell with Raccoon or Tanooki in SMBX so I think it would be easy to implement.

[ElectriKong]

I loved being able to flip over shells, even if it didn't mean anything...I remember that happening when using the Raccoon Tail.

Afaik you can flip the kamikaze shell with Raccoon or Tanooki in SMBX so I think it would be easy to implement.

It does change ot into a different NPC though, so it would work differently to just flipping the GFX, and as to how hard it would be to only flip cetain NPCs, I don't really know.

[Super Luigi!]

Are you referring to Uncle Broadsword and Ultimate Rinka here? I don't know if I'd class UR as "original" except as a technicality.

Yes. I believe those are the two characters I was talking about. From what I've heard, Uncle Broadsword in particular must not be trifled with.

As for flipping shells, let's do it.

[Rixitic]

shoutouts to
............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................hi there...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... flips

and yeah Broadsword is a real son of a gun, except not a gun maybe a claymore or something idk

[Ljw1765]

Hey, so if we have a costume for that particular son of a claymore that we want to give out soon™, where would we put it? Could we do that in this topic?

[Rixitic]

Personally I'm down for seeing Broadsword costumes in this thread as long as the mods would be okay with it, though the Graphics forum is probably the best place for them since costumes are effectively standardized packages of playable CGFX + additional stuff sometimes.

And on the topic of Broadsword and costumes, I can't guarantee it would be included in the basegame but if anyone wants to do one of the Hollow Knight main character or Hornet for the good uncle then you'll have my undying gratitude.

(blame enjl, he's the one that got me hooked on the game)

[Ljw1765]

the Graphics forum is probably the best place for them since costumes are effectively standardized packages of playable CGFX + additional stuff sometimes.

Ah yeah, good point. Also, thinking things through a bit, I wouldn't want it to get lost in a 120+ page labyrinth or disappear with this thread once the Beta 4 thread is opened, so Graphics forum it is. Thanks!

[Teemster2]

I watched a lot of Mario Maker on youtube and enjoy the levels even though most of them seem to require crazy jumps or are just troll levels but I have seen some interesting things that I would like to have in 2.0 and was wondering if they are even possible.

The first is the note blocks and springs. Currently only Mario etc can jump off of them and not enemy NPC's but they can in Mario Maker which makes for some interesting levels. I just tested this one and in SMBX they just walk across the note blocks.

Mario Maker has a key system in the levels where you can use keys to unlock doors to new sections. Correct me if I am wrong but in SMBX a key ends the level right? It would be nice to have this both ways.

Speed runs are levels that you must complete in a small amount of time in Mario maker. Is it possible to change the times for levels in SMBX to make short timed levels? Some levels for example only give you 20 seconds to complete. Not everyone in the SMBX community would enjoy these but it could make for interesting levels.

Tracks. There appears to be a track that you can have things follow. Think of SMW where blocks would follow a line/path. In Mario Maker they have the blue skulls follow the path but they also have NPC's such as Chomps and Flying Podoboos follow them. The tracks can go in any direction and would make for cool levels with NPC's following set paths.

In the game they have Podoboos with wings and I was thinking would it be possible to make a "wing" NPC that could make any NPC fly? They also have the fire bars that they can increase the length of the firebars. Is there any easy way to do this in SMBX? They also have cannons that can shoot out any NPC. An easy way to simplify this for SMBX is to have a special cannon enemy that can easily select any NPC from a scrolldown list or something.

This one is not really from Mario Maker but is it possible to have more than 1 item spring from a ? block when you hit it? I think it would be cool to have a block that can spring multiple enemy NPC's or even say multiple 1 ups like that special block in SMB3 did.

How about water that shoots up and down? That would be cool to have and you can even have enemy's sit on top of the water to make it more interesting.

Mario Maker also has fireworks.I have not seen any in SMBX. These would be really cool to see. Mario Maker also has big white arrows for in the levels that could be useful to some people if they were added to SMBX. While not really anything to do with MM I would also like to see some harder bosses. It seems like Boom Boom is way to easy and the bosses we have are not difficult to beat. Is there plans to do some custom bosses to make levels more interesting and harder? That was just a thought I had. Some custom sub bosses would be cool too.

I am done bothering you guys for now. I think your all doing a great job with Beta4 and would like to thank you all for your hard work and time put into Beta4.

[Matt_The_Slime]

Spoiler: show

I watched a lot of Mario Maker on youtube and enjoy the levels even though most of them seem to require crazy jumps or are just troll levels but I have seen some interesting things that I would like to have in 2.0 and was wondering if they are even possible.

The first is the note blocks and springs. Currently only Mario etc can jump off of them and not enemy NPC's but they can in Mario Maker which makes for some interesting levels. I just tested this one and in SMBX they just walk across the note blocks.

Mario Maker has a key system in the levels where you can use keys to unlock doors to new sections. Correct me if I am wrong but in SMBX a key ends the level right? It would be nice to have this both ways.

Speed runs are levels that you must complete in a small amount of time in Mario maker. Is it possible to change the times for levels in SMBX to make short timed levels? Some levels for example only give you 20 seconds to complete. Not everyone in the SMBX community would enjoy these but it could make for interesting levels.

Tracks. There appears to be a track that you can have things follow. Think of SMW where blocks would follow a line/path. In Mario Maker they have the blue skulls follow the path but they also have NPC's such as Chomps and Flying Podoboos follow them. The tracks can go in any direction and would make for cool levels with NPC's following set paths.

In the game they have Podoboos with wings and I was thinking would it be possible to make a "wing" NPC that could make any NPC fly? They also have the fire bars that they can increase the length of the firebars. Is there any easy way to do this in SMBX? They also have cannons that can shoot out any NPC. An easy way to simplify this for SMBX is to have a special cannon enemy that can easily select any NPC from a scrolldown list or something.

This one is not really from Mario Maker but is it possible to have more than 1 item spring from a ? block when you hit it? I think it would be cool to have a block that can spring multiple enemy NPC's or even say multiple 1 ups like that special block in SMB3 did.

How about water that shoots up and down? That would be cool to have and you can even have enemy's sit on top of the water to make it more interesting.

Mario Maker also has fireworks.I have not seen any in SMBX. These would be really cool to see. Mario Maker also has big white arrows for in the levels that could be useful to some people if they were added to SMBX. While not really anything to do with MM I would also like to see some harder bosses. It seems like Boom Boom is way to easy and the bosses we have are not difficult to beat. Is there plans to do some custom bosses to make levels more interesting and harder? That was just a thought I had. Some custom sub bosses would be cool too.

I am done bothering you guys for now. I think your all doing a great job with Beta4 and would like to thank you all for your hard work and time put into Beta4.

While the note blocks and springs might be hard to do, that might be simple with some Luna stuff
The keys in SMBX can be used to unlock doors as well as end levels
Not sure how tracks would work
If you want wings on things like Podoboos, SMBX 1.4.4 has the option to put wings on basically everything (Aside from backgrounds I THINK)
With layers and events creating a ? block with more than 1 things in it is suuuper easy
Water that shoots up and down also with layers and events
The fireworks can be made with custom GFX, same with the arrows (And SMBX does have an arrow sign, but only 1), and the harder/custom bosses can be made with layer/events or LunaLua

[ElectriKong]

The first is the note blocks and springs. Currently only Mario etc can jump off of them and not enemy NPC's but they can in Mario Maker which makes for some interesting levels. I just tested this one and in SMBX they just walk across the note blocks.

This would have to not be a default feature as it could break older levels, however.

Mario Maker has a key system in the levels where you can use keys to unlock doors to new sections. Correct me if I am wrong but in SMBX a key ends the level right? It would be nice to have this both ways.

This has existed for like years before Mario Maker was probably even thought of.

Speed runs are levels that you must complete in a small amount of time in Mario maker. Is it possible to change the times for levels in SMBX to make short timed levels? Some levels for example only give you 20 seconds to complete. Not everyone in the SMBX community would enjoy these but it could make for interesting levels.

There is an API for that in 2.0 by default.

Tracks. There appears to be a track that you can have things follow. Think of SMW where blocks would follow a line/path. In Mario Maker they have the blue skulls follow the path but they also have NPC's such as Chomps and Flying Podoboos follow them. The tracks can go in any direction and would make for cool levels with NPC's following set paths.

Lineguide.lua

In the game they have Podoboos with wings and I was thinking would it be possible to make a "wing" NPC that could make any NPC fly?

While this would be cool, what about the winged NPCs that already exist? Do we just depracate them? Because they are not removable otherwise older levels would be broken but it would also not make sense for hose NPCs to continue to exist when a wing NPC makes those winged NPCs already.

They also have the fire bars that they can increase the length of the firebars. Is there any easy way to do this in SMBX?

Layers and events could probably do this. Maybe orbits.lua could help?

They also have cannons that can shoot out any NPC. An easy way to simplify this for SMBX is to have a special cannon enemy that can easily select any NPC from a scrolldown list or something.

Use generators.

This one is not really from Mario Maker but is it possible to have more than 1 item spring from a ? block when you hit it? I think it would be cool to have a block that can spring multiple enemy NPC's or even say multiple 1 ups like that special block in SMB3 did.

Layers and events could probably do this.

How about water that shoots up and down? That would be cool to have and you can even have enemy's sit on top of the water to make it more interesting.

Layers and Events.

Mario Maker also has fireworks.I have not seen any in SMBX. These would be really cool to see. Mario Maker also has big white arrows for in the levels that could be useful to some people if they were added to SMBX. While not really anything to do with MM I would also like to see some harder bosses. It seems like Boom Boom is way to easy and the bosses we have are not difficult to beat. Is there plans to do some custom bosses to make levels more interesting and harder? That was just a thought I had. Some custom sub bosses would be cool too.

How would fireworks be implemented? NPCs? BGOs? What are these big white arrows in Mario Maker? Want harder bosses? create your own custom bosses with layers and events or LunaLua. You can also make already existing bosses harder or more unique. Look at Boom Boom evolutions as it shows how you can customize the boom boom bosses. What do you mean by a sub boss?

If you want wings on things like Podoboos, SMBX 1.4.4 has the option to put wings on basically everything (Aside from backgrounds I THINK

But why would you want to switch from 2.0 to 1.4?

[PixelPest]

Some of what people have said above is inaccurate. Please read this post.

The first is the note blocks and springs. Currently only Mario etc can jump off of them and not enemy NPC's but they can in Mario Maker which makes for some interesting levels. I just tested this one and in SMBX they just walk across the note blocks.

These features are coming to Beta 4 iirc with a new vertical and horizontal springboard NPCs.

Mario Maker has a key system in the levels where you can use keys to unlock doors to new sections. Correct me if I am wrong but in SMBX a key ends the level right? It would be nice to have this both ways.

Keys can unlock doors, barriers, and be used for keyholes. The keyhole exit will always end the level but doors, even locked doors, will not end the level unless their warp tells them to warp to another level, the world map, etc.

Speed runs are levels that you must complete in a small amount of time in Mario maker. Is it possible to change the times for levels in SMBX to make short timed levels? Some levels for example only give you 20 seconds to complete. Not everyone in the SMBX community would enjoy these but it could make for interesting levels.

These can current be accomplished with LunaLua (and just like an easy one or two lines of it) either via the old leveltimer.lua which is included by default on 1.3.0.2 and Beta 3, or by using clock.lua which you can download on the LunaLua subforum. Beta 4 should allow for timers to be set in the editor.

Tracks. There appears to be a track that you can have things follow. Think of SMW where blocks would follow a line/path. In Mario Maker they have the blue skulls follow the path but they also have NPC's such as Chomps and Flying Podoboos follow them. The tracks can go in any direction and would make for cool levels with NPC's following set paths.

Only NPCs follow lineguides, some of them just look like blocks iirc. Anyway, in SMBX2 you should either have the lineguide API or be able to download it which allows any NPC to be attached to a track, and also allows for curved tracks and other cool shapes. These will be built-in BGOs, most likely in Beta 4.

In the game they have Podoboos with wings and I was thinking would it be possible to make a "wing" NPC that could make any NPC fly? They also have the fire bars that they can increase the length of the firebars. Is there any easy way to do this in SMBX? They also have cannons that can shoot out any NPC. An easy way to simplify this for SMBX is to have a special cannon enemy that can easily select any NPC from a scrolldown list or something.

No idea what you mean by "firebars that increase the length of firebars". In terms of wings, it was discussed by the Devs and decided that it wasn't likely to be done. It involves rewriting and overriding all logic for 500+ NPCs in SMBX2 to do so properly. In 1.4 it's just a really janky mechanic and doesn't work well anyway.

This one is not really from Mario Maker but is it possible to have more than 1 item spring from a ? block when you hit it? I think it would be cool to have a block that can spring multiple enemy NPC's or even say multiple 1 ups like that special block in SMB3 did.

Just use layers and events. It's been available since before SMBX2.

How about water that shoots up and down? That would be cool to have and you can even have enemy's sit on top of the water to make it more interesting.

Someone did in fact make these at one point. You can currently find them in the LunaLua subforum however I've also been considering adding them as NPCs to SMBX2 when I have some time and get the current NPCs I'm working on done.

Mario Maker also has fireworks.I have not seen any in SMBX. These would be really cool to see. Mario Maker also has big white arrows for in the levels that could be useful to some people if they were added to SMBX. While not really anything to do with MM I would also like to see some harder bosses. It seems like Boom Boom is way to easy and the bosses we have are not difficult to beat. Is there plans to do some custom bosses to make levels more interesting and harder? That was just a thought I had. Some custom sub bosses would be cool too.

There are some new bosses like Fryguy being added to SMBX2 and the default NPCs are mostly on-par with their difficulties based on the games they came from. You can always create your own custom bosses. There are some great ones done via layers and events and more complex ones via LunaLua. Also just consider what your boss area looks like as well because you can use a default boss NPC like Boom Boom and make it much harder by just creating a challenging set-up in terms of the hazards of the boss room itself

[Teemster2]

Some of what people have said above is inaccurate. Please read this post.

In the game they have Podoboos with wings and I was thinking would it be possible to make a "wing" NPC that could make any NPC fly? They also have the fire bars that they can increase the length of the firebars. Is there any easy way to do this in SMBX? They also have cannons that can shoot out any NPC. An easy way to simplify this for SMBX is to have a special cannon enemy that can easily select any NPC from a scrolldown list or something.

No idea what you mean by "firebars that increase the length of firebars".

Thanks for answering my questions. I just meant fire bars that go from a short length to a long length to make them more interesting. Basically you change the size of them. Sorry for wording that wrong.

[Radiance]

fire bars that go from a short length to a long length

You can set the fire bars as Don't move.

[The0x539]

Some of what people have said above is inaccurate. Please read this post.

In the game they have Podoboos with wings and I was thinking would it be possible to make a "wing" NPC that could make any NPC fly? They also have the fire bars that they can increase the length of the firebars. Is there any easy way to do this in SMBX? They also have cannons that can shoot out any NPC. An easy way to simplify this for SMBX is to have a special cannon enemy that can easily select any NPC from a scrolldown list or something.

No idea what you mean by "firebars that increase the length of firebars".

Thanks for answering my questions. I just meant fire bars that go from a short length to a long length to make them more interesting. Basically you change the size of them. Sorry for wording that wrong.

use grafs

[HenryRichard]

Wait - how can you make the graphs go in a circle? I thought you couldn't do that with a mathematical function.

[Teemster2]

Some of what people have said above is inaccurate. Please read this post.


No idea what you mean by "firebars that increase the length of firebars".

Thanks for answering my questions. I just meant fire bars that go from a short length to a long length to make them more interesting. Basically you change the size of them. Sorry for wording that wrong.

use grafs

I saw those in the resource claims sheet but I was not sure what they were. Thanks. I will remember that.

[Teemster2]

Wait - how can you make the graphs go in a circle? I thought you couldn't do that with a mathematical function.

In Mario Marker they use them to look like ferris wheels but as fire bars of course. I wanted to recreate this in SMBX as it would be cool to have spinning wheels of death made from fire bars. Some of these wheels have a short lengthed firebar used and others seem to be much bigger wheels. I'm hoping these "grafs" will allow me to do just that.