I hate these kind of people

zlaker · Postby **zlaker** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:08 pm

Aren't you guys agree that you shouldn't judge a level or a game cause of the custom GFXs it has. It sucks because there's really good levels that doesn't even have a single custom GFXs. Now lemme hear your opinions

Darkonius Mavakar · Postby **Darkonius Mavakar** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:10 pm

We already talked about this.
i don't think this needs a topic.

Emral · Postby **Emral** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:12 pm

Darkonius Mavakar wrote:We already talked about this.
i don't think this needs a topic.

You shouldn't ignore the fact that this is kind of a big deal. I see completely unbalanced reviews giving bonus points for epic cgfx, leaving design and gameplay in the background, while they're in reality more important.

Danny · Postby **Danny** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:15 pm

I don't think I've given a review where Custom Graphics are the main focus. Sure, they look nice, but they don't define the game play in any way.

zlaker · Postby **zlaker** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:17 pm

Yeah one of my levels called Mushroom Mayhem got minus points because the tileset wasn't "recolored"

Fuyu · Postby **Fuyu** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 pm

Haven't checked if any reviews are based on the GFX, at least my CC7 contest wasn't reviewed that way. But I do think that if there are any reviews like that it shouldn't be done anymore. GFX is a part only of what should be remarked on a review, along with Gameplay and Design. What I may have seen may be just lower scores or higher just based on opinions, which clearly shouldn't be a way to categorize a level.

sleepy · Postby **sleepy** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:22 pm

Darkonius Mavakar wrote:We already talked about this.
i don't think this needs a topic.

Oh, it needs a topic. This NEEDS to be addressed.

You have no idea how much it pisses me off seeing someone's level getting downgraded JUST because it doesn't have custom graphics.

example wrote: I give this level 7/10, -3 for no custom graphics.

Why is this bad? It downgrades the level. Why should a level be downgraded for custom graphics. It doesn't, custom graphics DOESN'T change the gameplay.

silent_ · Postby **silent_** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:34 pm

Ice wrote:Yeah one of my levels called Mushroom Mayhem got minus points because the tileset wasn't "recolored"

It's not about the custom graphics, it's about how you used them (copyright - CASTLEWARS), and how you used the tileset was pretty bad, because it didn't fit as well without it being recolored.

Also, "hating someone" is an extremely strong thing to say, stronger than dropping the F-bomb, so your title was a bit harsh towards me the people who take points off for a level lacking any custom graphics.

Megar · Postby **Megar** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:36 pm

i'm actually going to make a cgfx-less level, see what comes out of it

sleepy · Postby **sleepy** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:37 pm

Maybe you should read his post a little more carefully - he didn't recolor his tileset.

zlaker · Postby **zlaker** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:44 pm

Kep wrote:
Ice wrote:Yeah one of my levels called Mushroom Mayhem got minus points because the tileset wasn't "recolored"
It's not about the custom graphics, it's about how you used them (copyright - CASTLEWARS), and how you used the tileset was pretty bad, because it didn't fit as well without it being recolored.

Also, "hating someone" is an extremely strong thing to say, stronger than dropping the F-bomb, so your title was a bit harsh towards me the people who take points off for a level lacking any custom graphics.

As sleepy said he complained about the I didn't recolor the GFXs, not how I used them. And taking away points for GFXs is stupid as fuck! Doesn't affect the level design or gameplay. Sure if it's a clash of it doesn't fit it's okay, but just because I didn't recolor doesn't it make a level bad.

silent_ · Postby **silent_** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:50 pm

Ice wrote:but just because I didn't recolor doesn't it make a level bad.

No one ever said that recoloring something automatically makes a level bad, it can just make the atmosphere awkward, which is the truth.

sleepy · Postby **sleepy** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:53 pm

Do I have to say this again?

He didn't recolor the graphics. He used the ORIGINAL.

zlaker · Postby **zlaker** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:56 pm

And if the level's atmosphere felt awkward wouldn't you take away point huh?

silent_ · Postby **silent_** » Sat May 17, 2014 2:57 pm

sleepy wrote:Do I have to say this again?

He didn't recolor the graphics. He used the ORIGINAL.

Regardless of whether it is new, old, original, classic, fancy, ugly, pretty, inverted, it should of been recolored. Trust me, I didn't miss your original post saying this, but I didn't think it was directed at me so I didn't bother replying to it.

Ice: Yes, I would, unfortunately.

Fuyu · Postby **Fuyu** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:00 pm

I don't know what kind of level are you guys talking about. Nonetheless, if some graphics look a bit awkward, the maximum amount of points to be subtracted would be 1, more would be just too much.

Besides, what matters on a level isn't the atmosphere, but the design and gameplay. This' nothing but the truth. I won't say anything like "I hate you people for doing thiz" but I'd like you people to reconsider the triggers you set for such scores to be given, you're overestimating appeal over everything else.

EDIT: It's not a matter of should, but a suggestion, and it isn't reason enough to decrease the review score too much, after all suggestions are based on opinions and nothing more.

Darkonius Mavakar · Postby **Darkonius Mavakar** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:04 pm

Ah well....
i'll say the most obvious thing ever.
gameplay is better that gfxs.

zlaker · Postby **zlaker** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:06 pm

Kep: Just because I didn't recolor doesn't make the level feel awkward. Ever tried to listen to the music???

sleepy · Postby **sleepy** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:07 pm

Kep, I never said anything about style -_- I'm going to stop here, my point isn't getting across, I won't even bother trying.

My point is--
A level should never, ever be judged for graphics, custom graphics in particular. So what? Just because a level doesn't have custom graphics, doesn't mean it's bad.

tl;dr
Custom graphics DOESN'T = good level quality

Chad · Postby **Chad** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:28 pm

Exactly, graphics should have a minimal-at-best effect on scoring. Sure, graphics can make a level better or worse to look at and alter the atmosphere, but that doesn't affect the experience of actually playing it. It's not impossible to create a really high quality but entirely vanilla level, while a level with the most gorgeous sprites imaginable could be designed like complete garbage.

Heck, I can think of several projects on RMN that are pretty well built, but nobody talks about them and I doubt they'd be given much of a chance here because of this community's graphical standards. (Not trying to advertise that, just making the point that if you compare projects from here to ones that aren't from here, it's easy to see where the different standards lie and how they'll still be overlooked even with solid design.)

I also find it irksome when things are given judgments like "I've seen this gimmick more than once, therefore it is overused and boring", or "hubs are bad because everybody uses hubs, use a world map". A level/world shouldn't be judged based on other levels, but for how it works on its own. Something being done before doesn't make it bad in itself, as the execution is what's important there.