True 8-bit graphics and music

aero · Postby **aero** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:40 am

So I was listening to this guy's remixes of John Maus songs, and noticed that the music wasn't truly made with 8-bit sounds, and the images used are just pixely and not actually 8-bit information wise. For those who listen to 8-bit music a lot, or like 8-bit styled graphics does this matter to you at all when people don't truly make 8-bit work and just use the aesthetic?

Channel of the guy who made the remixes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtJ_0Q ... jy8j0XGtmA

Also if 8-bit became its own style from a technical limitation, would there be any more new styles like this i.e. #-bit styles?

onpon4 · Postby **onpon4** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:10 am

If you want to understand how meaningless it is to say that an image is 8-bit, consider this: every GIF image or animation is by definition 8-bit. GIF doesn't support 16-bit or 24-bit depth. Keep in mind, with 8 bits, you can support 256 colors. That's not an especially low limitation until you get into the realm of things like photos and paintings.

When people think about "8-bit style" when it comes to graphics, they usually mean the kind of style that was necessary on the NES. Those limitations were influenced by far more than the bit depth of the image files and don't have any true analog in any other system.

I'm less familiar with audio, but I know a similar rule applies.

Magician · Postby **Magician** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:23 am

It doesn't bother me at all, but I happen to be one of those heathens who can willingly listen to a blend of "8-bit sounds" with other more traditional live instruments or synths from a different style. There might be a divergent genre of "Pure 8-Bit" if there's really any demand for that but I'm not sure people care enough beyond those who want to, I guess, show off that they understand the distinction. I think its pop culture attraction is mostly the style of it by how it can stand out among other kinds of instruments/soundfonts.

The "16-bit style" is a bit of a thing too. Sometimes I've seen it called "SNES-styled"... I don't think that's where it caps off either. I've seen music based off of what seems to be old Windows .wav files that came bundled with the operating system. I think whatever it is, if it manages to call back memories of using any old interface that incorporated sounds in any distinct way, it could be a thing. The various iterations of Wii and DS come to mind with their background music for you to find in the various built-in applications, so I think it's not so much the limitation but rather a feeling of nostalgia.

I think Shovel Knight did well with the aesthetic, despite clearly doing things that an NES couldn't. I guess to me it's just more important to follow solid game design standards (and of course the graphics factor into that) rather than whether it could fit on an NES cart.

aero · Postby **aero** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:05 am

onpon4 wrote:If you want to understand how meaningless it is to say that an image is 8-bit, consider this: every GIF image or animation is by definition 8-bit. GIF doesn't support 16-bit or 24-bit depth. Keep in mind, with 8 bits, you can support 256 colors. That's not an especially low limitation until you get into the realm of things like photos and paintings.

When people think about "8-bit style" when it comes to graphics, they usually mean the kind of style that was necessary on the NES. Those limitations were influenced by far more than the bit depth of the image files and don't have any true analog in any other system.

I'm less familiar with audio, but I know a similar rule applies.

They have 8-bit depth, but can take colors from 24-bit RGB color space just to clarify.

Magician wrote:It doesn't bother me at all, but I happen to be one of those heathens who can willingly listen to a blend of "8-bit sounds" with other more traditional live instruments or synths from a different style. There might be a divergent genre of "Pure 8-Bit" if there's really any demand for that but I'm not sure people care enough beyond those who want to, I guess, show off that they understand the distinction. I think its pop culture attraction is mostly the style of it by how it can stand out among other kinds of instruments/soundfonts.

Doesn't bother me either.

I actually like the 8-bit remixes of some songs better than the original like this one:

Sounds authentic too.

onpon4 · Postby **onpon4** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:35 am

AeroMatter wrote:They have 8-bit depth, but can take colors from 24-bit RGB color space just to clarify.

What you're talking about has nothing to do with the NES limitations people usually think about. 16-bit and 24-bit depth is typically an absolute color value system. But it makes very little sense to use absolute colors when you have as few colors as 256, so 8-bit color is typically based on palettes instead. The colors used in those palettes is completely arbitrary; the limitation isn't based on the word size of the CPU, but what the GPU and monitor can support.

Magician wrote:It doesn't bother me at all, but I happen to be one of those heathens who can willingly listen to a blend of "8-bit sounds" with other more traditional live instruments or synths from a different style. There might be a divergent genre of "Pure 8-Bit" if there's really any demand for that but I'm not sure people care enough beyond those who want to, I guess, show off that they understand the distinction. I think its pop culture attraction is mostly the style of it by how it can stand out among other kinds of instruments/soundfonts.

The "16-bit style" is a bit of a thing too.

And another thing to note: the typical bit depth for audio today is 16. That's what CDs use. The limitation that affects what kind of samples you can use in music has absolutely nothing to do with bit depth, but rather has to do with what the sound card can support and the space available for you to use. Old cartridge-based systems were typically starved for storage space, so the only reasonable option was music similar to MIDI, where a set of built-in instruments were used. It was only when CDs started getting used when music in basic audio formats (which can sound an arbitrary way, limited by the sound card and speakers' capability) were realistic.

The thing I'm getting at here is that if someone is being pedantic by saying, "That sound file/image file is not truly 8-bit!", they're being pedantic about entirely the wrong thing. What they should be saying is "That image uses colors the NES doesn't support!", or "That piece uses samples the NES doesn't have!" Personally, though, I couldn't care less about the limitations of old systems; it's not a limitation of my system, so all I care about is whether or not it looks or sounds good.

Magician · Postby **Magician** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:31 am

Yeah, I was just using the popular term with quotations around it. I'm aware that it's more of a colloquial term but it's for lack of a better one. NES-style perhaps?

Here's an SNES-style example that I really like (though again, not really certain if it is within the realm of what an SNES can do, but it sounds to me like it is and I think it sounds really good):

I honestly wonder if I'll regret sharing that and having it spammed into SMBX levels if that hasn't already happened.

mechamind · Postby **mechamind** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:22 am

The term 8-bit is fine by me. However, I've stopped caring about purity since Mibibli's quest, where the Crocodibli boss fight music is clearly beyond 8-bit. Not to mention how SNES (and NES) inspired games might be larger than 300x224 before rescaling to double the size.

We could go further and wonder about sprite limits.