We need change.

[aero]

I think that's part of it. The main thing with staffing is you have to be trusted, and able to show competence. If you go archive digging, you'll see some of the reasons why Joey voted for me with getting the wiki going and making somewhat decent posts. More recently you'll see that Layla was promoted and I supported it because of how well he did with the level judging, and he's a good user. The same thing went with Pseudo too. The problem is, is that it's hard to find trustworthy people rather than "forum populists." If someone were to help the community with something tangible such as getting the wiki active again, making medals (I can't shill this enough), or making the forum experience/chat experience/smbx experience significantly better.

I really don't see how this plays into inactivity though, since it misses the point of IRL obligations.

[m4sterbr0s]

First thing is first, yes I've been inactive and someone is worthy of taking over my spot. It's fair. I should have done this ages ago, but I shouldn't have ask for a repromotion to admin considering how life has changed for me. So I will be demoted by my request and in the best interest for everyone.

Now, a simple suggestion, but of course forgive me if it's stupid or idiotic. Can't we all just start over?

I feel like, given the circumstances now, coupled with the fact that problems were piled on top of each other as well as tangled up together, we not only can find the roots of these problems, but we've also lost a sense of foundation for this community.

This should be a "fun" community, a community worth partaking in and not only growing together, but where we're also growing ourselves.

Continuing to put ourselves in the midst of the current state of this community will further divide it and eventually lead to quite a collapse.

That being said, the best thing would be to forget what's happened in the past and begin anew. Of course, have a reasonable discussion - one between staff and the userbase - but remove the images and thoughts already implanted from the way the community has progressed as well as how other users have appeared, as if everything was new for the first time.

It may seem very difficult, but I feel it could help to mend back the community gap that is present right now.

[Zeldamaster12]

If 8bit was banned for standing up for himself, then I'm seriously going to lose faith in the staff.

[underFlo]

I really don't see how this plays into inactivity though, since it misses the point of IRL obligations.

They're not directly connected, but if we had more possible candidates for staff positions, we could probably replace the inactive staff members with them, but atm an inactive staff member is better then no staff member.

[Shadow Yoshi]

Just to clear up what I think is a misunderstanding so that people don't get any wrong ideas: Kley's demotion was ultimately my decision. I felt like he needed to take an official indefinite break from being a staff member here.

Any more questions about why Kley is no longer a staff member should be directed solely at me through PM, and not in this thread. Thanks.

[DarkMatt]

If 8bit was banned for standing up for himself, then I'm seriously going to lose faith in the staff.

He wasn't. Don't assume.

[Exiled Bowser]

If someone were to help the community with something tangible such as getting the wiki active again, making medals (I can't shill this enough), or making the forum experience/chat experience/smbx experience significantly better.

This is stuff I would love to do, I was talking in IRC to Darkmatt and you for a bit there and I mentioned I'll be doing more community related stuff here like, making new and better tutorials and you yourself asked me to help you with badges, but your google documents thing is locked to me; it says I needed permission by you to get its contents.

You have someone already that could lend his expertise to the task.

[Zeldamaster12]

Part of what I'm getting from DarkMatt's wall of text are the following:

-You must respect the staff regardless if they respect you or not.
-Whether you like it or not, you must comply with the wishes of the SMBX staff.
-I am going to write a wall of text containing a lot of things that some probably won't agree with, but I'm going to lock the thread anyways to prevent discussion.
-If you don't comply with staff no matter what the case, you have a much higher chance of punishment.
-I'm going to force the community to be the most mature out there at all costs.

Yes, there were some things I did agree with, like not going overly hostile (nothing will be accomplished that way). But, I've seen you be hostile some times, haven't I? Harassing SM7 and calling him a sellout, calling 8bit a useless depressed fuck, and calling krazykat an asshole (even in this thread). Those are just some examples that I thought of off the top of my head of you being hostile. Qig had a good point when he said that respect is a two-way street. If you expect the community to just automatically comply with you and the rest of the staff, you can't just treat them this way and expect that. If you want respect from the community, you have to give the community respect in return.

About Kley, one of the main reasons that I wanted him demoted was inactivity. I know he has the potential to be a moderator, and I recall him being somewhat active as a mod when he was first promoted. However, he only returned to update his comics, and even then, he posted a couple times like what, every 2 months (or longer)? And now, after not making a post for quite some time, he returns just to bump a one month old thread calling something stupid. 8bit had every right to call him out over that, because you know, isn't bumping old threads against the rules? I agree, 8bit was somewhat snide in his comment, but that doesn't change the justification of it. And rather than Kley handling it civilly, he calls 8bit "a shit", and was very hostile towards him. That's not how a moderator should act, and any other forum, that could lead to demotion if a moderator is flaming a member. Yeah, the shitstorm about Kley did get out of hand, and if I contributed to that, I apologize.

About the hostility of the thread in general, I don't really see what you're talking about there. I've seen a couple of members acting somewhat snide in parts of the thread, but that's all that comes to mind in this aspect. Other than that, we've been addressing valid points, and with sources too. There could have been hostility in the IRC however, but I wouldn't know about that; I don't go to the IRC that often. I'm only going on based on what happens in the forums.

Like I've pointed out before, you cannot expect the forums to operate to its fullest potential if there isn't synergy between the members and the staff. If you and the rest of the staff team expect respect from us members, then you all need to work on respecting the community a bit more too.

[Kley]

If calling someone a shit = intense hostility, then y'all don't know what hostility really is, or I've been mislead my whole life lol

[Exiled Bowser]

Yep total overreacting and lack of patience here. People have lives! They are not able to be at hand and foot to every beckon and whim to what I, you, or whoever wants.

Like what Darkmatt and others said, respect first and foremost and then show humility and patience towards the mods! Nothing is going to get done ever if you all whine and complain and don't be patient!

If you think you can do better, prove it by being active in the community yourself and maybe then you'll get promoted! Doing what you all did now is not going to get you to that point.

Make good levels, do good reviews, submit new and unique graphics or expansion packs (what i'm doing), do tutorials about SMBx and its features (what I'm doing also). Stick your neck out for others and then maybe, JUST MAYBE, they will look to you to lead. Even if it doesn't happen at least you feel good about yourself for helping here in any way you can. Don't be spiteful and selfish.

[Zeldamaster12]

If calling someone a shit = intense hostility, then y'all don't know what hostility really is, or I've been mislead my whole life lol

Last time I checked, I didn't say it was intense. Regardless of how intense, it was still hostility, and that's not how a mod should act.

Yep total overreacting and lack of patience here. People have lives! They are not able to be at hand and foot to every beckon and whim to what I, you, or whoever wants.

Like what Darkmatt and others said, respect first and foremost and then show humility and patience towards the mods! Nothing is going to get done ever if you all whine and complain and don't be patient!

If you think you can do better, prove it by being active in the community yourself and maybe then you'll get promoted! Doing what you all did now is not going to get you to that point.

Make good levels, do good reviews, submit new and unique graphics or expansion packs (what i'm doing), do tutorials about SMBx and its features (what I'm doing also). Stick your neck out for others and then maybe, JUST MAYBE, they will look to you to lead. Even if it doesn't happen at least you feel good about yourself for helping here in any way you can. Don't be spiteful and selfish.

You're new here, I don't even think you know what's going on other than what the mods have said because half of that post was recycled words from the mods.

[Shadow Yoshi]

Exiled has been around off and on (mostly off) for a little over four years now, actually.

I'll make a bigger response to you later, ZM.

[Kley]

If calling someone a shit = intense hostility, then y'all don't know what hostility really is, or I've been mislead my whole life lol

Last time I checked, I didn't say it was intense. Regardless of how intense, it was still hostility, and that's not how a mod should act.

the fact that I was expected to sit idle whilst the shit came at me is just too funny. Sorry that I had a human reaponse to someone who was being a complete ass. Sorry that after months of bashing wasn't good enough reason to lash out even the tiniest bit. Sorry that after seeing how infamous I am by finding a forum that was dedicated to my demotion set me off a little. Sorry. Sorry. QQ Please spare me from your wrath, as your idea of how I should have behaved towards an obvious flaming user wdidn't uphold to your expectations. So, very, sorry. Please get over it. I'm already demoted, and my situation and name doesn't need to be thrown around and argued about more than it already has. At this point, everyone is beating a dead horse. Seriously get over it.

[Exiled Bowser]

As Joey said, I'm not new here. I may be new to this forum, but I been in the smbx community as a whole since redigit's original forums and trekweb, so I do know what is going on.

Based on seniority alone across 4 forums (or more) and 6 years, I'd be a mod by now, but its doesn't work that way.

You have to own up to your claims and prove your worth on these forums. And what I said rings a lot of truth, you must indeed prove yourself. Seniority and popularity do not work here as so much as individual worth and merit as a whole to the community at large.

[Kley]

Oh, and sorry that I forgot thT when I was a mod, everything I say could and would be used against me.

[DarkMatt]

I don't see why my shortcomings gives you the perfect excuse to treat us like garbage. You're asking for people to be ideal by your definition, instead of asking for improvement and working towards consolation. For toting around the phrase "respect is a two-way street", you sure are demanding things out of me I will not comply with. Your funeral.

And this isn't even about me, at that. It's not my fault when people use me as a rationale to get themselves banned.

Quit thinking the way we treat you = the way we treat the community, because I only treat the weeds like this.

Or don't. I have something you don't: patience. I might not ban you for trying to prove me wrong after everything that has happened, but I can wait until you kick enough chairs over.

I do not care about any point that is delivered in such a violent or malicious way. The ends do not justify the means, and my conduct does not excuse yours.

[Palisade]

Respect IS a two way street Especially on a FORUM...
I wouldn't want to be on a forum where the staff talk down to me and accuse me of being somebody else/ignore everything I say.

As I said in my introduction topic I have not been here since 2009 or 2010 but I don't remember the staff crew being so...bad. You (staff) keep fighting fire with fire and making things worse. Just drop the ego already . it seems that a lot of people are not happy with the way things are

[Zeldamaster12]

DarkMatt, I like how you didn't even reply to all of my post, and are making false assumptions (hypocrisy much?).

More elaborate response to come soon.

[Exiled Bowser]

Respect IS a two way street Especially on a FORUM...
I wouldn't want to be on a forum where the staff talk down to me and accuse me of being somebody else/ignore everything I say.

As I said in my introduction topic I have not been here since 2009 or 2010 but I don't remember the staff crew being so...bad. You (staff) keep fighting fire with fire and making things worse. Just drop the ego already . it seems that a lot of people are not happy with the way things are

The only unhappiness I see here is with members not being patient with the mods THAT ALL HAVE REAL LIVES they are not robots people! This where the respect comes in. I wouldn't like it either if people yelled at me because I have to juggle a job, or school or house work instead of "Wahh! He's doing this! Ban/warn him!" or "That spam bot is there!" or "My topic is not approved!"

Report the spambot and move on, ignore the troll or rule breaker, and just wait and do something else if the post is not approved or your level is not judged. Its rather disrespectful being so pushy towards the mods and by extension other members especially if you want requests done.

Here's a good example from experience:

A forum I was on for Rpgmaker programs always had an unwritten rule of thumb, If you want things done for you, do things for others, don't just join a forum and not contribute! If you can't do anything because you are new to the program and don't have any skill get better, and learn a few things to try to help other newbies and then you can ask for the harder stuff that you can't do.

Its called paying it forward, and golden rule!

Its what we are trying to tell you guys! Respect is more than just being polite to one another! Its also being patient and waiting for things as we are not here 24/7.

[MistakesWereMade]

Yep total overreacting and lack of patience here. People have lives! They are not able to be at hand and foot to every beckon and whim to what I, you, or whoever wants.

Like what Darkmatt and others said, respect first and foremost and then show humility and patience towards the mods! Nothing is going to get done ever if you all whine and complain and don't be patient!

i mean nothing's gonna be done if we sit arround waiting until joey feels like demoting the inactive staff and upgrading boards either

If you think you can do better, prove it by being active in the community yourself and maybe then you'll get promoted! Doing what you all did now is not going to get you to that point.

Make good levels, do good reviews, submit new and unique graphics or expansion packs (what i'm doing), do tutorials about SMBx and its features (what I'm doing also). Stick your neck out for others and then maybe, JUST MAYBE, they will look to you to lead. Even if it doesn't happen at least you feel good about yourself for helping here in any way you can. Don't be spiteful and selfish.

99% of what you actually just said doesnt actually apply to a staff member

1-None of the staff actually provides tutorials/good levels/good reviews/lots of graphics, that's not the reason they got promoted, the reason they got promoted was to moderate the forum.
2-I'm really active in the community, where's my promotion
3-People sticked up for palisade because his opinion was being disregarded because "lol knux", people are sticking up (mostly on irc) for 8bit and reghrhre, that's not reason enough for their promotion.