Mixing too many tilesets

[Waddle]

So basically, this happened in the screenshot thread:

oh great kep started another level that he'll never finish!!!!

Kep just mixed 2-5 different tilesets without recoloring them!
seriously though, don't mix tilesets if they don't look the same.

This spawned a discussion about "clashing tilesets" and stuff. I think it would be more apprioprate to continue the discussion here. As for my opinion, I think it looks pretty good. The 2 different grass tilesets work with eachother well. I'm not sure about the mast colour, though. That one should be recoloured.

[Chip Potato]

Here's what I think, personally.

Unless it's two colors that really clash, like black and red, color mixing is okay.

[vitellaryjr]

I think it's fine, as long as it seems right. (For example, a SMW Thwomp that isn't recolored in a grass level. It isn't right.) He made a rocky beach with a ship in it. It's not like boats paint themselves to look nice with the island. (But that's applying logic to Mario, and that never ends well.)

[underFlo]

Unless it's two colors that really clash, like black and red, color mixing is okay.

I don't think black and red clash, it'd be more to the style of brown and blue or yellow and purple (even though the latter would make a decent contrast...)

[Chip Potato]

Unless it's two colors that really clash, like black and red, color mixing is okay.

I don't think black and red clash, it'd be more to the style of brown and blue or yellow and purple (even though the latter would make a decent contrast...)

Sorry, should have clarified. I mean like bright red and pure black. I'm sure if the red was darkened to a crimson/maroon color it could work. But anything complex with red and black makes my eyes bleed.

[RudeGuy]

There's nothing wrong about mixing tileset, unless they clash (=they doesn't look good togheter).
There's also nothing wrong about mixing colors (actually, sometimes levels with only one color doesn't look too good), just make sure every color is bright or dark.

[Choco]

I don't really have much input on this, but this is what I think.

Using multiple tilesets CAN be good. But when you mix styles and use colors that contrast horribly with the other tiles, look bad in general, or don't go with the level's theme, then you have a problem.
I'll give you an example of what can look good; say, a NSMBU snow tileset and a NSMBWii ice tileset (using these in a level I'm making so this just came to me) look decent together. They use similar styles, stick to a certain theme, and the colors look nice together.
But then we come to the "clashing tilesets" side. I'm looking at Kep's screenshot, and this is a good example. First I'd like to bring up the airship. The outside and the pillar - aren't meant to be. The pillar was meant for the interior of an airship. I know this because I've used it myself. Here, recoloring is the trick, despite what Kep says. The pillar is much lighter then the airship. Matching the colors could make it work. And on the grass tilesets, recoloring is VITAL. You have two horribly different tilesets. The background island could be darkened to actually make us aware that it's in the background. But that's not my point, even though it supports that recoloring is nessecary. Now, we have blue dirt there and the tan dirt of the blocks. Blue and tan. It's just not right. And the grass on the island is much too yellow-ish to fit in. The water is just too dark.
I'm not taking sides here. You don't always have to recolor, but in some cases, (like this one) it's nessecary. Tilesets will clash often, but the answer isn't always recoloring.
Anyway, that's all I have to say as of now.

[Superiorstar]

Sorry, should have clarified. I mean like bright red and pure black. I'm sure if the red was darkened to a crimson/maroon color it could work. But anything complex with red and black makes my eyes bleed.

Ahem...
Recoloring tilesets to non-clashy should work as well.

[Choco]

Sorry, should have clarified. I mean like bright red and pure black. I'm sure if the red was darkened to a crimson/maroon color it could work. But anything complex with red and black makes my eyes bleed.

Ahem...
Recoloring tilesets to non-clashy should work as well.

Exactly. It doesn't have to be a major recolor, as long as it doesn't look bad.

[Eternity]

There's no problem with that for the most part. The only thing that might be weird is having two different grass tilesets without much differences between them, but the other colors don't "clash". It just adds some more color variety, as Kep said before. A thousand times better than monochrome levels. The airship and pillar colors actually go well together from what I can see, and there's no need to have them use the exact same color.

I think theme inconsistency is what you're trying to say (which commonly overlaps with way too many tilesets) and yes, that is an issue.

(also not related but that screenshot seems pretty overdecorated to me, no need to have a thousand different grass decorations with slightly different stiles. stick to fewer ones and try to keep graphical consistency instead)

[Vellidragon]

I don't think contrasts are bad. I would personally have more of an issue with multiple styles that are too similar (but at the same time not similar enough) with no apparent purpose. Grass, sand, mud, rock, dirt, etc. all coming together in an environment can give a nice, varied look. Grass, grass and grass being combined and looking slightly different each time is just strange.

(I am generally bothered by elements that don't mesh but don't form a contrast either, not only in an SMBX context.)

I would probably like the design in the first post's screenshot better if the grass on the two ground types either looked more alike or more clearly established as distinct types of vegetation. It looks like two different artistic takes on the same thing right now and it subconsciously bothers me when looking at the picture.

[MacheTheFerret]

I don't really have much input on this, but this is what I think.

Using multiple tilesets CAN be good. But when you mix styles and use colors that contrast horribly with the other tiles, look bad in general, or don't go with the level's theme, then you have a problem.
I'll give you an example of what can look good; say, a NSMBU snow tileset and a NSMBWii ice tileset (using these in a level I'm making so this just came to me) look decent together. They use similar styles, stick to a certain theme, and the colors look nice together.
But then we come to the "clashing tilesets" side. I'm looking at Kep's screenshot, and this is a good example. First I'd like to bring up the airship. The outside and the pillar - aren't meant to be. The pillar was meant for the interior of an airship. I know this because I've used it myself. Here, recoloring is the trick, despite what Kep says. The pillar is much lighter then the airship. Matching the colors could make it work. And on the grass tilesets, recoloring is VITAL. You have two horribly different tilesets. The background island could be darkened to actually make us aware that it's in the background. But that's not my point, even though it supports that recoloring is nessecary. Now, we have blue dirt there and the tan dirt of the blocks. Blue and tan. It's just not right. And the grass on the island is much too yellow-ish to fit in. The water is just too dark.
I'm not taking sides here. You don't always have to recolor, but in some cases, (like this one) it's nessecary. Tilesets will clash often, but the answer isn't always recoloring.
Anyway, that's all I have to say as of now.

>claims to not have much input
>has the longest post of the thread
lol

But in all seriousness, this really shouldn't be a big deal. Let Kep do with tilesets what Kep wants to do.

[Waddle]

>claims to not have much input
>has the longest post of the thread
lol.

Just because he has a long post means he had alot of input (not saying he doesn't have any). Also, this discussion isn't about kep and should not be. If it were about kep, I'd name this topic "Kep and mixing too many tilesets". Which I didn't.

[Choco]

I don't really have much input on this, but this is what I think.

Using multiple tilesets CAN be good. But when you mix styles and use colors that contrast horribly with the other tiles, look bad in general, or don't go with the level's theme, then you have a problem.
I'll give you an example of what can look good; say, a NSMBU snow tileset and a NSMBWii ice tileset (using these in a level I'm making so this just came to me) look decent together. They use similar styles, stick to a certain theme, and the colors look nice together.
But then we come to the "clashing tilesets" side. I'm looking at Kep's screenshot, and this is a good example. First I'd like to bring up the airship. The outside and the pillar - aren't meant to be. The pillar was meant for the interior of an airship. I know this because I've used it myself. Here, recoloring is the trick, despite what Kep says. The pillar is much lighter then the airship. Matching the colors could make it work. And on the grass tilesets, recoloring is VITAL. You have two horribly different tilesets. The background island could be darkened to actually make us aware that it's in the background. But that's not my point, even though it supports that recoloring is nessecary. Now, we have blue dirt there and the tan dirt of the blocks. Blue and tan. It's just not right. And the grass on the island is much too yellow-ish to fit in. The water is just too dark.
I'm not taking sides here. You don't always have to recolor, but in some cases, (like this one) it's nessecary. Tilesets will clash often, but the answer isn't always recoloring.
Anyway, that's all I have to say as of now.

>claims to not have much input
>has the longest post of the thread
lol

But in all seriousness, this really shouldn't be a big deal. Let Kep do with tilesets what Kep wants to do.

Didn't intend on saying much, but I ended up doing it anyway.

[bossedit8]

...this really shouldn't be a big deal. Let Kep do with tilesets what Kep wants to do.

I definetly have to agree with this one. Although the whole mixing styles of colors can be kind of unintuitive on some situations, it's all about the creator's deal if he want's it or not and if it is bad for most of the discussion it can be changed with no problems.

[Waddle]

Also, this discussion isn't about kep and should not be. If it were about kep, I'd name this topic "Kep and mixing too many tilesets". Which I didn't.

[Superiorstar]

I think some people just don't know how to use tilesets when it comes too this stuff. that's one of the reasons why the screenshots thread is a thing, to get criticism on your work and try again. It's pretty much trial and error when it comes to making a level and impressing a level judge.

[bossedit8]

By mixing too many Tilesets, if you jump back to the older Games like the Super Mario All-Stars (so SMB, SMBTLL, SMB2, SMB3 (& SMW)), this was pretty limited of tileset placements like you tecnically can't mix a Grass Tileset with a Underground and so on. Of course in SMBX you can mix multiple Tilesets together but in The Invasion 2 it was done by Sections rather than having it all by one Section. As this was a thing for today by mixing Tilesets together it do looks nice to have them in a Level like that but if there are a lot of them it tends to get too much. I do remember one Level in CC6/ToB5 that has way too many Themes and Tilesets together...

[FallingSnow]

When it comes to choosing graphics, creating an atmosphere that is aesthetically pleasing is much more difficult than simply choosing tilesets of the same color. This is one of the biggest issues I see from people who create levels with a wide usage of graphics and custom graphics. Simply recoloring an object to fit into another environment does not always solve the issue of the object in question appearing out of place. One must consider the color and style (including shading and outlines) as well as the placement of the graphics themselves.

When people say that SMW graphics inherently clash with a tileset like SMB1, 2, or 3, they are most likely referring to the differing styles of the shading and amount of colors present in the graphics of the respective games. SMW, being one of the SNES's first games, did not have the advantages of SMAS in being able to take advantage of additional colors. Much of SMW's graphics, therefore, are generally limited to 3 or 4 shades per sprite.

To return to the design of SMBX levels, placing objects of significantly fewer shades in an environment filled with an abundance of different colors can make those lacking in the variance of colors seem out of place - clashing with the environment if you will. To use Kep's screenshot as an example:

You might look at the wood of the ship and start to see what I'm referring to in general. Let's examine the vanilla airship tiles.

block-70.gif

Now compare the two. Kep may have decided to make his airship tiles darker to appeal to the nighttime setting, but this has been done incorrectly. His tileset now lacks the shading essential to the design of the tiles that prevents them from looking flat. While this is bad enough and may pass in a level independently, the blocks do not size up to the grass tileset only a few tiles away. This grass tileset, much lighter than the wood tileset, begs to argue that the wood tileset itself should not even be dark in the first place. Second, the grass tileset exhibits a greater amount of shades in its core zigzag pattern than does the wood tileset. Also notice the lighter and darker areas on the sides and bottom of the dirt in this grass tileset.

You could complain about the dark tree too, but that's another issue.

What is done right, however, is that everything in this screenshot has a solid black outline (aside from the clouds, but you can let those slide). This helps make up for the lack of consistency in the shading, but not by much.

So what you should keep in mind is not just the color but also the style and placement of your tiles. The usage of greater amounts of tilesets is not bad in and of itself, but the chosen tilesets and the ways those tilesets are utilized may cause issues.

[Eternity]

Agreed. Also on lack of consistency, I just noticed that while one of the grass decorations on the dirt (the original SMW one) has a black outline, while most of those lack one. Rather minor, but might as well point it out, as it's not the first time I have seen something similar.