We need change.

[Kley]

Welp, I caused a shitstorm. In the long run, I feel like I helped 100% because someone had to say what I said. I just wish the slandering would stop.

[qig]

Show me a responsible admin who can prove he's got what it takes, and chances are we'll let him in

ur the staff member.
find ur own fucking staff members lmao.

Another great post. Why are you here again?

i'm contributing to the topic. what are you doing here? besides ignoring perfectly reasonable points because someone may or may not be knux.

[Kley]

Users that literally seem like they thrive on causing shitstorm and drama do nothing but make the environment extremely hostile (whether the user is staff or not) and serious action should just be taken upon them. End of story. No one here is going to change how I feel about that. Sorry. :/ counter me, or quote me all you want.

[Shadow Yoshi]

qig, make your points respectfully or don't bother. Thanks.

I'm not sure what more you expect from a Mario fanforum,

Can we quit with this, please? I settled this argument here.

What you guys need to realize is that in order for this community to get a lot better, we need effort from both the staff and the users. I'm not talking about adding miscellaneous features or upgrading board software - that stuff is nice, but it's not my point. By "get a lot better" I mean we need to be more of a community - the staff can pull things along all we want, but everyone else has to pull their weight as well. The constant argumentative attitude and general immaturity is what's holding this place back.

[MistakesWereMade]

let's try to dodge "personal" attacks so this thread doesn't get a semi-valid reason to get locked.

@Kley: we're trying to solve this extremely hostile enviroment by trying to establish a synergy between the userbase and the staff, nobody here is striving to force a shitstorm.

What you guys need to realize is that in order for this community to get a lot better, we need effort from both the staff and the users. I'm not talking about adding miscellaneous features or upgrading board software - that stuff is nice, but it's not my point. By "get a lot better" I mean we need to be more of a community - the staff can pull things along all we want, but everyone else has to pull their weight as well. The constant argumentative attitude and general immaturity is what's holding this place back.

The users are trying to do that effort, and like you said, the staff needs to put effort into that too, but most of the responses i've seen in this thread from the staff is "The userbase is bitching; Respect the staff; Let us do our job"

A community can't be a community if it can't establish a synergy between their members. You've admitted that the synergy is weak when you said "The staff can pull things along all we want, but everyone else has to pull their weight as well."
EDIT:
And the "constant argumentative attitude" would stop when the staff actually listens to the suggestions the community does, For example, when reghrhre was an admin over the nsmbx forums (while those fourms werent the best anyway), there were little to no arguments, because reghrhre was a person who actually cooperated with the the community.

[reghrhre]

maybe our attitudes and immaturity is because of you guys? lemme repeat what i said earlier:

Why? Maybe because, y'know, there's serious distrust and lack of cooperation between the staff and users (mostly the staff though, unfortunately), the staff don't open up their mindsets beyond their boundaries so if they don't agree with us then we're practically, instantly, wrong, and they won't bother, and many other things. It's been like this for months now and we're sick of it and we're especially sick of how almost nothings changed or gotten slightly better which is why we're all angry, negative, and bitchy nowadays. The users can't really do much because we have no power which is why we rely on the staff, but if they're not doing shit then who will? How can you, the staff, not see that?

[qig]

qig, make your points respectfully or don't bother. Thanks.

Respect is a two way street. People like you, Darkmatt and Ghosthawk don't show respect to the various users of this forum, why should I show respect back?

[Zeldamaster12]

Last time I checked, we've kept addressing completely valid points (some with sources even, like you asked us to, Joey) and the staff have done nothing but say things like:

"The userbase is bitching; Respect the staff; Let us do our job"

I'm really starting to think that the staff are bull-headed.

[Danny]

qig, make your points respectfully or don't bother. Thanks.

Respect is a two way street. People like you, Darkmatt and Ghosthawk don't show respect to the various users of this forum, why should I show respect back?

I said practically the same exact thing to DarkMatt and he came up with some lengthy spiel about how the users are at fault. I got a warning a while back and one of the reasons was for being overly defensive when the staff are doing the same exact thing now. Something isn't right here.

[DarkMatt]

I do not respect those that do not respect others.

This is it. I have had it. You might pull this "oh you have to treat me fair for me to treat you fair" shit on other people, but not me.

I am now going to start giving warnings out to people who even so much as JOKES about the nature of this thread. Post about this topic in a productive, sensitive matter or be warned. I am tired of kids making light of this situation, and I'm tired of people using us as an excuse to be assholes. This is not up for discussion. Be civil, or be thrown out.

I don't have my finger on the trigger. Just don't feel like I'll shoot you if you post and I won't.

[qig]

I do not respect those that do not respect others.

This is it. I have had it. You might pull this "oh you have to treat me fair for me to treat you fair" shit on other people, but not me.

I am now going to start giving warnings out to people who even so much as JOKES about the nature of this thread. Post in a productive, sensitive matter or be warned. I am tired of kids making light of this situation, and I'm tired of people using us as an excuse to be assholes. This is not up for discussion. Be civil, or be thrown out.

you don't respect others anyway regardless of how much they may or may not respect others.
you had an entire series of topics on this very forum where you went and insulted a variety of users, and i'm guessing you had little direct with interaction with the majority of those people.

[Imaynotbehere4long]

Pardon me if I go off topic a bit with this post, but I feel this needs to be addressed:

It's just like the level judge team when I was part of it; I was really the only one tending to the mass amount of levels that had to be reviewed, while the others didn't really do anything. It made my job a lot harder since I had to cover more area in a short amount of time while the rest of my supposed team did nothing.

I was a judge during the same time you were; did you forget?

the only immediate staffing changes that I can really think of at this current time is a complete overhaul of the level judges

Complete overhaul? While I can't speak for the rest of the Level Judges, I actually review levels in my free time! Remember this? I got that "medal" for a reason. Admittedly, reviewing levels takes time, and sometimes I don't have that time, but I've had plans to review as many levels as I can this weekend ever since last weekend (when I was only able to review one level).

I don't mean to sound angry, but you seem to be saying that all of the Level Judges don't do their job when I've reviewed levels every time I've had a chance. Plus, just because a judge isn't reviewing levels doesn't mean he/she isn't spending that time, say, moderating the Projects or Episodes sub-forum (that's also part of a Level Judge's job, believe it or not).

[Danny]

Quite interesting.

I was given some long talk by DarkMatt about respect, and I would comply with them if he wasn't eating his own words. He told me I had to apologize for getting Kley demoted, when I was never the direct cause of that? I was just being used as an example apparently, and I was threatened several times as if I was the sole reason Kley quit his job. I was told to apologize and respect Kley and not say anything rude about him. Well isn't it quite strange that DarkMatt told me that I was a "useless depressed fuck" and he never apologized, though his excuse is that I never meant it? I didn't quit the community over that, albeit I was pissed and felt worse about myself, that is on no level of what I said to Kley.

I was frustrated with the post Kley made, bumping a 2-month old topic to show he came back. I'm not sure if anyone else can say the same, if they were frustrated or not, but I was. So I post something in frustration and Kley went over the edge and asked for a demotion. And now DarkMatt has threatened to take action if I don't apologize to him.

Meanwhile, a long while back, DarkMatt told me on IRC that I was a "useless depressed fuck" the day after my grandfather passed away. He said that with no emotion or frustration, unlike what I said to Kley, which was frustration. DarkMatt never apologized to me, and now he told me he never actually meant that. I didn't go over the edge and leave the community or demand an apology from DarkMatt, so why should I apologize to a decision Kley made himself?

That doesn't make sense.

[DarkMatt]

Complain about me what you will.

I'm still getting what I asked for, and that's all I care about right now.

[Danny]

Complain about me what you will.

I'm still getting what I asked for, and that's all I care about right now.

I'm not apologizing to Kley because it was his own decision to demote himself. He was being overdramatic in that regard, what I said wasn't nearly as bad as what you said to me. And quite honestly I'm surprised Kley didn't expect any saltiness after returning from several months of inactivity only to make a rather useless post on a 2-month old thread. I'm not sure how many times I have to tell you this, but I will repeat it as many times as I have to. What I said was in a bout of frustration, Kley took it overboard and asked for a demotion, how he did not expect any frustration from what he did is beyond me.

[reghrhre]

Moderator uses: I'm tired of these baseless users complaining even though they're providing completely valid comebacks of which I don't agree with which means they're instantly wrong and the staff is ALWAYS right and they're just not stopping with all this correct info so I'm gonna misuse my powers because I just can't accept the truth or open up to different views since listening to others sure is tough because I'm stubborn as fuck!

That move sure is a good one don't ya think? Only few have mastered that technique! Now I understand why most of the staff were chosen, you all share the same trait; you guys are more talented than I thought!

[FallingSnow]

I do not respect those that do not respect others.

This is it. I have had it. You might pull this "oh you have to treat me fair for me to treat you fair" shit on other people, but not me.

I am now going to start giving warnings out to people who even so much as JOKES about the nature of this thread. Post about this topic in a productive, sensitive matter or be warned. I am tired of kids making light of this situation, and I'm tired of people using us as an excuse to be assholes. This is not up for discussion. Be civil, or be thrown out.

I don't have my finger on the trigger. Just don't feel like I'll shoot you if you post and I won't.

Pretty sure you're not helping. (As far as tone goes at least)

Moderator uses: I'm tired of these baseless users complaining even though they're providing completely valid comebacks of which I don't agree with which means they're instantly wrong and the staff is ALWAYS right and they're just not stopping with all this correct info so I'm gonna misuse my powers because I just can't accept the truth or open up to different views since listening to others sure is tough because I'm stubborn as fuck!

That move sure is a good one don't ya think? Only few have mastered that technique! Now I understand why most of the staff were chosen, you all share the same trait; you guys are more talented than I thought!

Nor you.

---

Since this is kind of going in circles at this point, I'd be curious to see what each side would like to see come from this situation. What are the suggested and requested changes?

[DarkMatt]

I'm not doing anything until timeout is over.

Though I will do something. I just do not want to do it while people are like this right now. So I'll have to apologize for the full stop, but I want people to swallow their pride first.

[aero]

This thread is going to remain unlocked for now, and let's keep it that way by not going after specific users. That includes staff and non-staff members alike. A ban has already been filed, and that should not be necessary to keep a discussion about moderation defused.

[underFlo]

I really think the reason for the inactive stuff is not primarily a fault of the staff, I'm sure if there were users the staff'd find to be qualified they would've promoted them, but there aren't really any quLified users from the staff's point of view, so we either have 5 mods of which 2 are active or only 2 mods for example, and I'd rather choose the first one since the other 3 are still online at times. Unless it goes extreme, inactive staff shouldn't be the primary problem, a lack of users that the staff thinks are qualified, and wether that's the users or the staff's fault id debatable, I think it's a mix of both.