Super Mario Bros. X Forums

I'm not going to continue this discussion by posting in my thread, http://www.smbxgame.com//forums/ ... =31&t=6552 , because that would severely derail its topic. Instead, let's make a new topic devoted entirely to this.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:I don't know--how much of the immaturity of the Knuckles96 forums have you cut back on?

All of it. I have pretty low tolerance levels for the stupid stuff that existed at that forum.

Do you really? I and a few of my friends are pretty skeptical about what you just said, considering that the majority of your users who have joined the network channel today have been acting quite... strangely.



Assertion #1: http://pastebin.com/DdPrcvLS
Assertion #2: http://pastebin.com/sv7vRmeT
Assertion #3: http://pastebin.com/tqJ8A2XB
Assertion #4: http://pastebin.com/zV7c4w2y
Assertion #5: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... =90#p79249 Assertion #6: http://pastebin.com/D1uBSGbv
Assertion #7: http://pastebin.com/Kkvcy3Ny
Assertion #8: http://pastebin.com/Djpcz0g0
Off-Topic: http://pastebin.com/AS9g0NAL

Think these quotes don't apply to the forums? I beg to differ.

Nov 04 18:48:24 <Bomber57> I'm just gonna say the chatroom is a different environment, but most of the stuff in here carries to the forums and vice versa, so I wont stop you.
Nov 04 18:48:36 <Sdyexo> yeah the fact that it carries over
Nov 04 18:48:40 <Sdyexo> that's the key thing here
Nov 04 18:48:45 <Sdyexo> I'll quote you on that, thanks
Nov 04 18:48:53 <Bomber57> Happy to provide.

I might as well mention something else. Remember Cloud? Yeah, that guy. He's still alive, you know. (He also knows quite a few insider tricks about Pokemon X and Y, Super Smash Bros. 3DS, and other recent titles.)

Nov 04 18:52:00 <Drluigi> Now I'm curious as to why people like this more than Cloud's forums.
Nov 04 18:52:32 <Sdyexo> Drluigi, it's simply because there are more people at Joey's forums, and they post way more often than the people at Cloud's
Nov 04 18:53:05 <Sdyexo> michelfp and Lightray killed Cloud's forum originally, and it has had a very rocky road recovering
Nov 04 18:53:32 <Drluigi> So they're the ones who convinced people to hate it?
Nov 04 18:53:39 <Sdyexo> pretty much
Nov 04 18:53:44 <Drluigi> Wow.
Nov 04 18:54:12 <Drluigi> Cloud's forums could have been the next Knuxforum.
Nov 04 18:54:29 <Sdyexo> There are even those who blame Cloud for hacking the Knux forums originally, but everyone knows he isn't capable of anything like that
Nov 04 18:54:40 <Sdyexo> that's a touchy topic, why am I bringing that up
Nov 04 18:55:02 <Sdyexo> all I know is that it happened two whole years ago and the fact that people still take sides on a dead argument is just amazing
Nov 04 18:55:29 <Drluigi> You know,
Nov 04 18:56:08 <Drluigi> I want to start something now where people from Smbx can get away from forum drama.

I want to make another thing clear. I never said that you should step down--I'm just looking for reform. I don't want to look like I'm saying you're evil or bad, because honestly, you're not. You're a cool guy--I like you. As the hoster of the website, you can do whatever you'd like to anyone here, including me. However, I just want to make you aware of what's really happening right now, even in those spots you can see. I feel that it would be most helpful to redirect you to the life of Martin Luther to compare what I see is happening right now.

If you agree with anything I've said here, anonymous reader, please, absolutely, post a reply and tell us why you'd agree with my case.

Your argument is not long for the world if you try to compare yourself to Danny. He's made quite a few insults at Joey's expense and Joey told him in no uncertain terms it was the last warning.

Don't forget, when the Staff elections occurred, there was a public poll. But in the end it didn't even matter because the final decision was up to the current staff.

What a load of bias.

Anyone who expects any online community to be perfectly mature all the time is delusional

Karl Marx wrote:Anyone who expects any online community to be perfectly mature all the time is delusional

That doesn't mean you can't make it better, though. I'm just seeing a little bit of room for improvement here, that's all. Also, hello.

Magna wrote:Don't forget, when the Staff elections occurred, there was a public poll. But in the end it didn't even matter because the final decision was up to the current staff.

What a load of bias.

Holy shit, after Deoxys totally whammies you and Christian07 for abusing this forsaken word, you still abuse it. Joey can we set a censor on this word?!

But yes, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks things really haven't changed, and quite frankly, I've been obtaining a large sense of resentment.

Also, I'd like to say my scores weren't influenced by artist at all even after I knew many people's levels. None of these users included GMarinaX. How did I know? A lot of you users have very recognisable design.

Deoxys <3 Nice to see you.

personally i dont see anything improving in this community until users mature a bit.

#nohate

sleepy wrote:Deoxys <3 Nice to see you.

personally i dont see anything improving in this community until users mature a bit.

#nohate

the average age demographic here prevents that from happening

FanofSMBX wrote:Your argument is not long for the world if you try to compare yourself to Danny. He's made quite a few insults at Joey's expense and Joey told him in no uncertain terms it was the last warning.

Why the bloody hell are you mentioning me and my dark and horrible dark-side??? Yes, Joey has said on multiple occasions that I've had plenty of last warnings, and not once have I been truly eradicated from this community, I just can't be, and it would break my heart the day I see it happens. Until then lets not focus on me until I do happen to be gone for whatever horrible reason.

The OP speaks the truth and quite frankly Joey hasn't been doing much of anything regarding any of this, or at least on a verbal level he hasn't. It really frustrates me that he goes and says something such as what he said in the OP, and then a few days later everything is in shambles and what he said is pretty much null. I have to give a big, sad thumbs up to that in the most sarcastic manner ever.

Joey lives in an illusion/pretends not to notice the happening while users have the regular habit to bash each other. You're cracking a hard safe with a tough combination.

Karl Marx wrote:Anyone who expects any online community to be perfectly mature all the time is delusional

Its not impossible, though chances are nobody would ever cooperate enough to make this happen. No community is perfect, either. We actually fare better than a lot of the communities I've seen in my time.

FanofSMBX wrote:Your argument is not long for the world if you try to compare yourself to Danny. He's made quite a few insults at Joey's expense and Joey told him in no uncertain terms it was the last warning.

Can we not talk about the mistakes people have made? That is part of what Deoxys is stressing.

Truth is, Joey only exists to add small additions to the forums and lock threads.
He is like a robot, he never interacts to his user base nor does he take into account their opinions. He is simply set to follow his own orders.

Magna wrote:Truth is, Joey only exists to add small additions to the forums and lock threads.
He is like a robot, he never interacts to his user base nor does he take into account their opinions. He is simply set to follow his own orders.

I disagree, although it's just your opinion from experience I guess.

While a bunch of users might indeed agree that he could try interacting more, you are far from any sort of solid argument on the subject in my honest opinion, just reflecting what a section of users think. yu do have a chance to beef it up tho

This topic is very important and I plan to make a full and detailed response later today, but I fear that I will come back in 9 hours (a timeframe that will be explained in my detailed response) and not want to respond to 5 pages of posts. I'm going to lock this for now so that I'm not overwhelmed later.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Do you really? I and a few of my friends are pretty skeptical about what you just said, considering that the majority of your users who have joined the network channel today have been acting quite... strangely.



Assertion #1: http://pastebin.com/DdPrcvLS

First of all, to make myself clear, I hope you weren't angry with the "fuck off" part. People cuss on the internet. It's nothing new.

However, since I don't think that's what you were getting at, I do agree that the altercation was definitely not good and that people were getting too emotional. I wouldn't pay much attention to Marina's comment though. He's friends with some of the people that were responsible for the attacks we've been receiving here since the summer. It's difficult to tell what his intentions are with that comment, so it's better we disregard it.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #2: http://pastebin.com/sv7vRmeT

So CaptainSyrup (Nesli) insulted people. I do agree, that's bad.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #3: http://pastebin.com/tqJ8A2XB

All of the stuff you said about their work being "free" isn't necessarily true. If the work is original enough, you can license it (see: open source software), which sets legal restrictions. Not that anybody does that here, though. So, Malia was being immature.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #4: http://pastebin.com/zV7c4w2y

I don't have time to implement everything that is suggested. Something like designing and implementing medals takes time that I don't have.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #5: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... =90#p79249

Spoiler: show

Or, do you even care for your members? If you trusted your members that you care for, you would be sure to host an election so that the people would get a say in forum politics. It's always really cool to say "I helped make that happen" about something really big, like presidential elections. I know that you have some doubts about this as well--but again, I repeat, is it better to take the risk than to limit it to aristocrats and elitists? If you'd like to show your members that you, as an administrator, care for your people, you need not only to take what they say into consideration, but you also need to get them involved in something that you're personally dealing with. American capitalism is even built upon a form of this principle: debt. Let's make a comparison here.

http://www.quickmeme.com/news/?p=5699 wrote:You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax exemption for five cows. The milk rights of the six cows are transferredvia an intermediary to a Cayman Island company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to sell all seven cows back to your listen company. The annual report says the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. You sell one cows to buy a new president of the United states, leaving you with nine cows. No balance sheet provided with the release. The public buys your bull.

Clearly, the owner of the cows was not afraid to make deals that could potentially ruin his business, but he did it anyway and received many more cows than what he started with. He realized that the risk was worth the reward. There are some suggestions in this thread that are worth the risk--can you see them?

So I should cook the books? This isn't Enron. And quickmeme isn't a reliable source for anything.

Moving on, I don't host elections because I don't trust the userbase to make that kind of a decision. There's a difference between "who the community wants" and "what's best for the community". The end goal, I suppose, is to get those two to be the same; we're not there yet, though, as you know.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #6: http://pastebin.com/D1uBSGbv

I'll make a point about this in a sec.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #7: http://pastebin.com/Kkvcy3Ny

This log is entirely subjective. You were kind of out of line in proclaiming yourself the savior.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #8: http://pastebin.com/Djpcz0g0

I don't normally talk about these things publically, but Mista Epic was banned permanently from the community (his IRC ban hadn't been enacted yet). So I guess that solves that.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Off-Topic: http://pastebin.com/AS9g0NAL

So michel is spamming and people respond to it. This has literally been happening for months. We're working on it; this takes some time.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Think these quotes don't apply to the forums?

I didn't say that.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:I beg to differ.

Nov 04 18:48:24 <Bomber57> I'm just gonna say the chatroom is a different environment, but most of the stuff in here carries to the forums and vice versa, so I wont stop you.
Nov 04 18:48:36 <Sdyexo> yeah the fact that it carries over
Nov 04 18:48:40 <Sdyexo> that's the key thing here
Nov 04 18:48:45 <Sdyexo> I'll quote you on that, thanks
Nov 04 18:48:53 <Bomber57> Happy to provide.

The chat may be a different physical environment, and there's surely a different speaking dynamic, but that doesn't mean the forum rules don't apply. It's not the whole "forum stricter and use IRC for dick jokes" philosophy that was kind of present at Knux's Forums and that some people have come to expect. All of the rules at the forums apply to the chat. And that leads us into the main point:

I was not here for any of this.

Seriously. It's almost like when I enter the chat people immediately stop whatever stupid stuff they were doing, and then continue it when I leave. I've probably even heard people talk about doing that before. Also, I'm going to mention later more about why I'm not here that often, especially on the IRC; you can't expect me and the rest of the staff to be staring at the IRC 24/7. People abuse that and there's nothing I can do when I'm not looking. You guys know, however, that things are a bit different when I am looking. But that hasn't happened a lot lately, for reasons I'll explain in a little bit.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:I might as well mention something else. Remember Cloud? Yeah, that guy. He's still alive, you know. (He also knows quite a few insider tricks about Pokemon X and Y, Super Smash Bros. 3DS, and other recent titles.)

Nov 04 18:52:00 <Drluigi> Now I'm curious as to why people like this more than Cloud's forums.
Nov 04 18:52:32 <Sdyexo> Drluigi, it's simply because there are more people at Joey's forums, and they post way more often than the people at Cloud's
Nov 04 18:53:05 <Sdyexo> michelfp and Lightray killed Cloud's forum originally, and it has had a very rocky road recovering
Nov 04 18:53:32 <Drluigi> So they're the ones who convinced people to hate it?
Nov 04 18:53:39 <Sdyexo> pretty much
Nov 04 18:53:44 <Drluigi> Wow.
Nov 04 18:54:12 <Drluigi> Cloud's forums could have been the next Knuxforum.
Nov 04 18:54:29 <Sdyexo> There are even those who blame Cloud for hacking the Knux forums originally, but everyone knows he isn't capable of anything like that
Nov 04 18:54:40 <Sdyexo> that's a touchy topic, why am I bringing that up
Nov 04 18:55:02 <Sdyexo> all I know is that it happened two whole years ago and the fact that people still take sides on a dead argument is just amazing
Nov 04 18:55:29 <Drluigi> You know,
Nov 04 18:56:08 <Drluigi> I want to start something now where people from Smbx can get away from forum drama.

This comes down to another issue that we face, and that I'm trying to fix: People need to grow up. There's only "forum drama" because someone gets warned or loses Mafia or thinks a contest is "biased" (don't even get me started on that word) and then everybody cries about it. Like, seriously, if people would just relax and not let stupid shit bother them then things would get better quicker.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:I want to make another thing clear. I never said that you should step down--I'm just looking for reform.

And so am I. That's why I'm here.

To fill you in a little bit since you've missed some stuff, I took the position of community leader from Knux a little over 10 months ago (feels like yesterday, no joke). I know you remember Knux's forums very well - they were a place where pretty much the whole community acted stupid. My goal has been to reform that; I could've gone about banning everyone I didn't like or who didn't follow the rules, because it's easy to just eliminate them. Or, I could, y'know, administrate normally! I chose the latter obviously, with the intention of being more strict than Knux was because I know it would be better for the community. Did I say it would be easy? No; in fact, I've said the opposite. Has it all gotten better and everything's fine? Of course not. Are we on our way there? Absolutely.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:However, I just want to make you aware of what's really happening right now, even in those spots you can see. I feel that it would be most helpful to redirect you to the life of Martin Luther to compare what I see is happening right now.

I don't want to read that entire article. What about it do you want to compare to our current situation?

By the way, even though I've argued and disagreed with some of your points here, I really do appreciate that you brought them. Don't get me wrong; you're doing a good thing.

Magna wrote:Don't forget, when the Staff elections occurred, there was a public poll. But in the end it didn't even matter because the final decision was up to the current staff.

What a load of bias.

First of all, stop misusing "bias". Second, the final decision was up to the staff because I knew we wouldn't be able to trust the entire userbase with the decision of who to add to the staff team.

Karl Marx wrote:Anyone who expects any online community to be perfectly mature all the time is delusional

But that's not really relevant since we can get a lot better than what we are now. What Deoxys said.

TNTtimelord wrote:But yes, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks things really haven't changed, and quite frankly, I've been obtaining a large sense of resentment.

I find that a little bit hard to believe. You don't notice any change in the general presence/attitude of the community from when Knux was in power?

sleepy wrote:personally i dont see anything improving in this community until users mature a bit.

That's the goal.

Karl Marx wrote:the average age demographic here prevents that from happening

Not necessarily. One of the reasons I added affiliates and never supported adding the flash games back was because I want to make sure we're marketing this program to the right audience. That's proved somewhat successful, I guess. Most of the immature members here are ones that have been here longer than 10 months (this is a rough statistic, feel free to prove me wrong).

8bitmushroom wrote:The OP speaks the truth and quite frankly Joey hasn't been doing much of anything regarding any of this, or at least on a verbal level he hasn't. It really frustrates me that he goes and says something such as what he said in the OP, and then a few days later everything is in shambles and what he said is pretty much null. I have to give a big, sad thumbs up to that in the most sarcastic manner ever.

I don't know why you expect me to make the relevant staff decisions on a verbal level.

Nothing is in shambles.

Yoshibrothers wrote:Joey lives in an illusion/pretends not to notice the happening while users have the regular habit to bash each other. You're cracking a hard safe with a tough combination.

Magna wrote:Truth is, Joey only exists to add small additions to the forums and lock threads.
He is like a robot, he never interacts to his user base nor does he take into account their opinions. He is simply set to follow his own orders.

During this year and the previous three years, you may or may not have noticed a decline in my activity during the months of August through November. This is, as I sometimes ambiguously call it, "my busy season"; and it's just that. This year, the last day of my busy season falls on Saturday, November 15th. The following day, Sunday, will generally be spent sleeping and catching up on important stuff that has nothing to do with these forums. Basically, you'll start seeing me active here a lot more on Monday the 17th.

Long story short, I've been busy doing things that take precedence over administrating a Mario forum. I get to this place when I can, often checking it on my phone during the day and making a post or two. This also explains why I'm a lot less active on the IRC than I am on the forums; IRC is less practical when on my phone.

So, forgive me for being inactive as of late. I do what I can. But that doesn't mean I'm not listening to you.

I will say a couple short things:

1.For those who interacted with me yesterday (I imagine weren't many) I kinda turned into my 2013 to early 2014 self (a real negative and self-loathing attitude, I've been trying to forget it) and I want to say I applogize for any somewhat low-life or rude, not thought out things I said, and one of those is what you, Joey, quoted.
2.I have been around a while and I have noticed that the staff DOES listen to everyone here. I'm not the person to explain, but I can tell you everyone here has a voice, as long as you're willing to made yourself heard in a productive manner, like Deoxys did.

I'd have to say, Deoxys brought this issue up very maturely, and if any other user has some kind of issue regarding the forum, they should express it in a mature and orderly fashion like Deoxys did.

I have something to say about users causing trouble when no ops are around.

Why not get more ops?

I've noticed during late night (11:30 pm - 1:30 am EST) and early morning (4:00 - 7:00 am EST) that there's constant spamming, as well as immaturity. Sure, Starfy is there, but Starfy doesn't actually ban, he just kicks as far as I know.

My suggestion you get some ops that live in different timezones that can be active at the channel. Timezones I would suggest would be UK time (GMT +\-0) and USA time (PST EST CST etc.)

Might be just me, but whenever I'm "active" at the IRC I rarely see any ops at the times I mentioned. Perhaps another op should be selected?

Ironically enough, I'm up all night and I am around this too. Nothing ever really happens on most days, but there are some times I wished I was op so I could take care of it. However I've asked in the past and was refused.

It wouldnt hurt to have another op with GhostHawk at night, because he leaves eventually during the night as well, and Elsa is inactive, which leaves the channel open to anything.

"You may embed only 3 quotes within each other." AHHH WHY DOES IT TAKE AN HOUR TO DEBUG MY POST WHILE I'M STILL WORKING ON IT .-.

Aww, thank you, Joey! But dear me, I'm sorry for coming out of the blue about this so suddenly. Later on when I was writing this, I just felt like this was some huge quest to like, save my friends or something because of how teary they got when I revealed where I was lurking on the IRC, recording all these logs for you. One second, please--let me find how emotional Bomber got about me, lol. He's really great and passionate with his feelings--it's why we became friends. Aha, here it is! Just... That ;-; is so adorable. I know he means it when he uses that face, too, because I remember him from way back in the day. More on that degree of trust way later.

Also, I just want to say something--whenever I say something seriously extreme such as:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Or, do you even care for your members?

...it's not actually meant to say that you don't care--it's clear that you do, because again, this website exists. I probably should have started that off with "If..." so that I was clear that I was only posing a hypothetical. Ever since I learned about using hypotehticals to advance a position in logic, I've been in love with using those, so if you see those often, there you go. It's kind of like how different authors have particular styles because they like certain writing elements they learned more than others. But, here I go again with the analogies--don't I use those way too often? It seems like I do, anyway.

Alright, I can infer that you expected me to acknowledge your post, so let's go about doing that, shall we now? (:

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #1: http://pastebin.com/DdPrcvLS

First of all, to make myself clear, I hope you weren't angry with the "fuck off" part. People cuss on the internet. It's nothing new.

Sigh... it's still been really hard over the past year to get over that fact that people will relentlessly swear because they can, because they think it's cool, and because they believe nobody can and should stop them from doing it. I know that it's true that people swear, but zlak's wording--isn't that the most offensive out of the derogatory terms there are to choose from? (oh dear let's please not get philosophical about swearing, I would not like that very much rofl) If he felt he needed to swear to indicate a humorous tone of voice, maybe he could have chosen a less suggestive term. Still, though, I've now learned that he's zlakerboynumbers (oh lol here comes the asnumbers joke again, haha) on the forums, and looking through his posts, he doesn't act like that at all. As you stated later in your defense, people who act differently when you're not around like this indeed cannot be trusted.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #3: http://pastebin.com/tqJ8A2XB

All of the stuff you said about their work being "free" isn't necessarily true. If the work is original enough, you can license it (see: open source software), which sets legal restrictions. Not that anybody does that here, though. So, Malia was being immature.

So what you're saying is... I can actually set licenses to things I create and still distribute them for free? My gosh, that's awesome! I honestly would use licensing if it were practical to the amount of things I have tended to post. In addition to that, do I need to be a certain age to set up an artistic license like this? I'd love to get started.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #4: http://pastebin.com/zV7c4w2y

I don't have time to implement everything that is suggested. Something like designing and implementing medals takes time that I don't have.

I said a few things about this later on about IRL. But, might I recommend hiring someone to do something like this for you so that you don't have to use your severely limited time to do things like this? If you did something like that, you could not only live out your life the way you'd like to, but you'd also be creating more time to spend to attending to the small things that people would really like to see around here. Eh, it's an idea, but if you don't like it, of course you don't need to do something like that.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #5: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... =90#p79249

So I should cook the books? This isn't Enron. And quickmeme isn't a reliable source for anything.

I'm more book-smart than I am street-smart. Unfortunately, I don't understand the cliche that you first used and the reference that you used next as a result of this. But speaking of references, you're right--what am I thinking that I can use a website like "quickmeme"? The environment there, based off of the name of the site, sounds almost like the IRC chat we have now if you ask me. But indeed, source reliability is another thing to keep in mind when I'm trying to argue a case. I should probably, hypothetically, trust a research site on the statistics of capitalism more than what appears on my Facebook feed. Keep in mind, though, I'm still in contact with my favorite teacher over Facebook, and she happened to come across this and share it to her timeline. Not sure what occurred in me that made me assume that I could use the words in that funny picture for a scenario like this, but it's probably because she's helped so much in my recent schooling as of last year.

Joey wrote:Moving on, I don't host elections because I don't trust the userbase to make that kind of a decision. There's a difference between "who the community wants" and "what's best for the community". The end goal, I suppose, is to get those two to be the same; we're not there yet, though, as you know.

I can hardly wait until we get to a better homeostasis! Things like this come with time, though, and it's really more than kind of you to undertake such a task of helping people like this be better than they are now. I think we all are way overdue for a round of applause to Joey for maintaining something like this with such a positive future in mind. He knows what he's doing for sure, and I hope you guys will be able to see that soon.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #7: http://pastebin.com/Kkvcy3Ny

This log is entirely subjective. You were kind of out of line in proclaiming yourself the savior.

I'm sorry; I do get pretty defensive about people I genuinely care about. It indeed was uncalled for, but maybe it happened because I put too many goals ahead of myself. You've seen some of the insane SMBX creations I've made before; if I didn't have a such a "anything is possible" mindset, a lot of this would have never happened. But anyway, I'm sorry for letting my persistence make me say what I said in there. In addition to that, the way he just shrugged off my presence like I was nobody just felt kind of rude, and that's what prompted me to say at least something. I don't know, sometimes I see myself as being very delusional; perhaps this is true. I said my three lines about digging their own graves after they were talking about forum memes, because I think we're honestly starting to grow sick of what has been harbored at http://knuckles96.prophpbb.com/ and his "Knuxforum Wiki." Might this picture be relevant in relation to this? xD

Dang, I really should watch that movie--my family owns it on VHS, so.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Assertion #8: http://pastebin.com/Djpcz0g0

I don't normally talk about these things publically, but Mista Epic was banned permanently from the community (his IRC ban hadn't been enacted yet). So I guess that solves that.

Yup, you were there before I left for Bible study tonight, and I saw it happen as you know, heh. I don't want to insert my opinions where they don't belong, so I will decline to comment on the actions of Mista_Epic and the decision to permanently ban him. In your eyes, it's all for the best, and I'll take your word on that.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Off-Topic: http://pastebin.com/AS9g0NAL

So michel is spamming and people respond to it. This has literally been happening for months. We're working on it; this takes some time.

Ehh... I didn't really mean for this one to make you look bad. This has seriously been happening for way to long--I think about half as long as I've been around, now--and it's really ignominious of michelfp to still be doing this after at least literally a hundred people now have told him to stop. This one isn't your fault, but I'm seriously still appalled that he still vents in the form of spamming our IRC. I'm also pretty sure that michelfp won't be reading this anytime soon, so I'm not exactly sure why I bothered to mention this. Reeeeeeally though... I swear, he does know all the back doors to ever exist.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:Think these quotes don't apply to the forums?

I didn't say that.

One of the things I feel is important to any argument is anticipating any counter arguments that might exist. This appeared to me as a huge gaping hole I needed to sew up, so that's how I worded it. I'm now remembering that one time when my dad told me that it's bad to start off points with a question. This is pretty much the main reason why--it raised your hairs (Or, at least I think that's not an awkward metaphor? Aw, geez, I wish I were as street-smart as I am book-smart.). If I had reworded this to say "Perhaps you think that these quotes don't apply to the forums.", you might not have felt as defensive as I made you right here. I apologize for doing this to you. I've made a few mistakes in this fun experiment, as I might as well call this right now (and will explain the reasoning for such an odd naming of such a post later), but don't we all make mistakes sometimes? Clearly none of us are perfect, but we can only strive to improve. Thanks for bringing up your initial reaction right here.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:I beg to differ.

Nov 04 18:48:24 <Bomber57> I'm just gonna say the chatroom is a different environment, but most of the stuff in here carries to the forums and vice versa, so I wont stop you.
Nov 04 18:48:36 <Sdyexo> yeah the fact that it carries over
Nov 04 18:48:40 <Sdyexo> that's the key thing here
Nov 04 18:48:45 <Sdyexo> I'll quote you on that, thanks
Nov 04 18:48:53 <Bomber57> Happy to provide.

The chat may be a different physical environment, and there's surely a different speaking dynamic, but that doesn't mean the forum rules don't apply. It's not the whole "forum stricter and use IRC for dick jokes" philosophy that was kind of present at Knux's Forums and that some people have come to expect. All of the rules at the forums apply to the chat. And that leads us into the main point:

Hmm. When I was there, it just felt like #knuxcentral all over again. It's definitely good to know that officially, the forum rules apply to the chat this time around. But indeed, what you were about to say was:

Joey wrote:I was not here for any of this.

I KNOW, RIGHT?! It just makes my heart so sad and empty to see that people communicate these types of things behind your back. As disheartening as it is, would you like me to private message you the whole twenty-four hours that I referenced? Maybe it will help you get a little bit more insight on what's happening in there so that you'll know what to do around the time that you get more time to spend around here.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:

Nov 04 18:52:00 <Drluigi> Now I'm curious as to why people like this more than Cloud's forums.
Nov 04 18:52:32 <Sdyexo> Drluigi, it's simply because there are more people at Joey's forums, and they post way more often than the people at Cloud's
Nov 04 18:53:05 <Sdyexo> michelfp and Lightray killed Cloud's forum originally, and it has had a very rocky road recovering
Nov 04 18:53:32 <Drluigi> So they're the ones who convinced people to hate it?
Nov 04 18:53:39 <Sdyexo> pretty much
Nov 04 18:53:44 <Drluigi> Wow.
Nov 04 18:54:12 <Drluigi> Cloud's forums could have been the next Knuxforum.
Nov 04 18:54:29 <Sdyexo> There are even those who blame Cloud for hacking the Knux forums originally, but everyone knows he isn't capable of anything like that
Nov 04 18:54:40 <Sdyexo> that's a touchy topic, why am I bringing that up
Nov 04 18:55:02 <Sdyexo> all I know is that it happened two whole years ago and the fact that people still take sides on a dead argument is just amazing
Nov 04 18:55:29 <Drluigi> You know,
Nov 04 18:56:08 <Drluigi> I want to start something now where people from Smbx can get away from forum drama.

This comes down to another issue that we face, and that I'm trying to fix: People need to grow up. There's only "forum drama" because someone gets warned or loses Mafia or thinks a contest is "biased" (don't even get me started on that word) and then everybody cries about it. Like, seriously, if people would just relax and not let stupid shit bother them then things would get better quicker.

I feel that this drama goes hand-in-hand with the rehashed memes that circulated abroad Knux's forums in the day. If everyone wasn't so concerned about what's been opinionated and what purely factual, I'd say that maybe a good quarter of some of the mishaps that have occurred would be gone. Also, people's tastes for certain level design changes, so discussing that is almost like discussing, to cite an example, the metagame of Pokemon X and Y. It's relevant to the game, but maybe there's a tad bit much going into it than what should be going in. I mean, if you'd like, I could hang out at Smogon's IRC for a day as well if you'd like, but ehh--I'd rather not add more to my electricity bill than I already have. It's one of the unfortunate things my family has to deal with since we're, by definition, middle-class Americans.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:I want to make another thing clear. I never said that you should step down--I'm just looking for reform.

And so am I. That's why I'm here.

Alright, awesome! We're on the same level! Meh that was really obvious though, I just put that in there just to be sure that you noticed that I had no malicious intent by that post. The more friendly one seems when making an argument, the more convincing the argument is, right? Except I'm not trying to seem friendly, but actually to be friendly (You've most likely come to realize this as you were reading through my position).

Ahh, time for a history lesson, I see? No problem, I love learning! Let's see what we have to digest here.

Joey wrote:To fill you in a little bit since you've missed some stuff, I took the position of community leader from Knux a little over 10 months ago (feels like yesterday, no joke). I know you remember Knux's forums very well - they were a place where pretty much the whole community acted stupid. My goal has been to reform that; I could've gone about banning everyone I didn't like or who didn't follow the rules, because it's easy to just eliminate them. Or, I could, y'know, administrate normally! I chose the latter obviously, with the intention of being more strict than Knux was because I know it would be better for the community. Did I say it would be easy? No; in fact, I've said the opposite. Has it all gotten better and everything's fine? Of course not. Are we on our way there? Absolutely.

Well said, my dear friend! Yeah, I'm sure it does feel like yesterday because things like this that happen when your back it turned. Can't wait to see what will ensue after you become active again.

Joey wrote:

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:However, I just want to make you aware of what's really happening right now, even in those spots you can see. I feel that it would be most helpful to redirect you to the life of Martin Luther to compare what I see is happening right now.

I don't want to read that entire article. What about it do you want to compare to our current situation?

Alright, sometimes it's hard to remember that people I'm talking to don't live in my head, so I'm sorry for being so sudden with posting a Wikipedia link with a page as long as that one. When I was in 8th grade (or, was in 9th? ...Nah, it was totally 8th grade; I know I didn't do this last year, but by that logic it might have been 7th grade. Hmm...), my history class (MY GOSH DID I SAY I LOVE MY TEACHER) had each of us write a report on anyone mentioned throughout the scope of a given number of chapters. This occurred after my "realization," but before the actual infatuation, so I was pretty passionate about my words there, so I decided to choose someone religious so I could dig deeper into what I claimed I believed. I'm pretty sure I have the original .docx lying around on my mom's laptop, so I can send you that if you'd like. But basically, what I remember from researching everything about Martin Luther is that he saw that the pope was deceiving all the people he ruled over by means of unification of church and state, and Martin Luther used the Bible to prove the existence of the pope's deceit in his "Ninety-Five Theses." (Hey bossedit8, or any other German users, I'm sure you'll smile while reading this one since Martin Luther was German, after all! I should travel to your country someday. Is it nice over there?) To be perfectly honest, now that I'm seeing what I'm comparing you to, this isn't accurate at all since you're perfectly aware of the status quo and you're really trying to do what's best. My apologies. Disregard this link as being relevent, then, but definitely keep in mind that Martin Luther makes for an interesting study topic. If you ever have spare time (which, unfortunately, you probably won't any time soon I don't think?) and just want to sit back and read something, start on this guy. He's neat and he supports our faith.

Joey wrote:By the way, even though I've argued and disagreed with some of your points here, I really do appreciate that you brought them. Don't get me wrong; you're doing a good thing.

relevant gif is relevant :3

But, FYI, I like cute things. Hopefully that reflects a little bit of the personality that I've shown SMBX when I was here.

So, about your responses to the next posts--I'll not interfere with those, and I'll let your intended audience respond as they need to.

Joey wrote:During this year and the previous three years, you may or may not have noticed a decline in my activity during the months of August through November. This is, as I sometimes ambiguously call it, "my busy season"; and it's just that. This year, the last day of my busy season falls on Saturday, November 15th. The following day, Sunday, will generally be spent sleeping and catching up on important stuff that has nothing to do with these forums. Basically, you'll start seeing me active here a lot more on Monday the 17th.

Long story short, I've been busy doing things that take precedence over administrating a Mario forum. I get to this place when I can, often checking it on my phone during the day and making a post or two. This also explains why I'm a lot less active on the IRC than I am on the forums; IRC is less practical when on my phone.

So, forgive me for being inactive as of late. I do what I can. But that doesn't mean I'm not listening to you.

I seriously wish I had something to do every day like you do--what the Internet calls a "life." I really can't wait to get one! ...so that I have an excuse not to be here other than the distrusted users, if you know what I mean. Not only that, but I have a hard time setting realistic limits for myself on how much progress I should do in any given project I'm working on, so it often interferes with my "schedule." Uhh... let's not discuss family dynamics right now, but realize that I spend a lot more time doing this than is called for.

Also, going all the way back to my thesis, you're right not to trust your userbase--as I managed to show in my logs, they're rather... two-faced, I think. Hypocrisy might be the better word for something like that. It just seems like a lot of IRC users forget that the forum rules do indeed apply to the chat as well as to the forums. I seriously feel that this should be a global announcement, and I hope you'll agree with me here.

Thanks for saying nothing about Cloud--he was irrelevant to my main point in this case, so seeing as how I know you two don't exactly have the best histories with each other, I really appreciate how you let me figure out my own shortcoming in my own argument. That honestly says a lot to me positively, but I'm not sure how other people would feel if something like this were pulled on them. You really do know what's best for certain people, I see. :)

So, let me get back to that degree of trust I said I'd dicsuss "way later." Of all the people I'm annoyed with having two faces here in the community, there are still certain original members that I know to act the same way whether on the forums or in a chatroom. I don't want to make a list of those people, because that would make other people I'd refrain from including feel very excluded, and I don't mean for them to feel that way at all! But be aware that just as you trust people like Valtteri, I also trust people like Bomber57 and Yoshibrothers, though they're not exactly the best candidates for administrator, I don't think, based on their fields of expertise (aka what they do best).
Hey, you, anonymous reader again, you do know what it feels like to deeply trust someone and have faith that the outcome will turn out positive for trusting in them, right? That's the specific feeling I'm trying to describe here. I don't know why I suddenly shifted my addressee, but I might as well have you readers know that I'm also writing this with you guys in mind. Getting back to talking to Joey...

I CANNOT FORGET TO MENTION THIS. I also used this topic as a practice run. I enjoy preaching, arguing, or anything up the alley of defending something that I believe in. Thank you so much for spending the time you most likely did not have, Joey, to help get me through this small debate I was trying to have. It honestly does mean a lot to me. ;D It was really fun, and I'll definitely be taking some of the things we learned out of this to use in more practical debates pertaining to other matters. I'm also definitely looking forward to the sunny side of these forums--can't wait to see that happen. I'll be sure to be patient about it as well.

I hope you other people have taken at least something away from this. If you feel you need to say anything else in front of the general public just as I felt I needed to, Joey, please do so before the flood of replies comes raining in, if you know what I mean. ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING FURTHER TO JOEY SHOULD MOST LIKELY PRIVATE MESSAGE HIM; PLEASE DO THAT FOR THE SAKE OF HIS REAL LIFE AND FOR THE SAKE OF MY SINCERITY. THANKS.

If you'd like to say anything further to me, I shall ask of you that you add my username to your friends list on Steam in order to do so, as I prioritize unread chat messages on Steam to come before private messages on these forums. Thank you.

SilverDeoxys563 wrote:ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING FURTHER TO JOEY SHOULD MOST LIKELY PRIVATE MESSAGE HIM; PLEASE DO THAT FOR THE SAKE OF HIS REAL LIFE AND FOR THE SAKE OF MY SINCERITY. THANKS.

Kind of hard when almost all of my PMs have gone ignored.

Joey wrote:The chat may be a different physical environment, and there's surely a different speaking dynamic, but that doesn't mean the forum rules don't apply. It's not the whole "forum stricter and use IRC for dick jokes" philosophy that was kind of present at Knux's Forums and that some people have come to expect. All of the rules at the forums apply to the chat. And that leads us into the main point:

The IRC chat is supposed to be a little more laidback than the forums as the only way that the chat can exist for longer than a user being online is through logs. Think of it as Snapchat, because those images don't stay there (at least in plain sight) forever.

Joey wrote:I don't know why you expect me to make the relevant staff decisions on a verbal level.

Because if people got a little bit of an understanding of what is going on currently then they maybe wouldn't flip their shit about it afterwards. Right now the only thing I see prospering from that is DarkMatt and the level forums getting a face lift. If there existed some form of monthly or bi-monthly newsletter or update status on the forums, maybe some people can get a good understanding of what is happening and they can adapt a little earlier to that. And it also helps if you're communicative with the users rather than just acknowledging suggestions and comments and leaving it at that. Also discussing issues would be better than brushing them off, I would give you some examples of this happening but the threads are either deleted or are jumbled up in the Off-Topic Discussion forum.

Joey wrote:Nothing is in shambles.

THE IRC WOULD BEG TO DIFFER.

Also if you could stop shaming Knux's place and making it out to be a shithole all the damn time, that would be great. Yes, it was about as immature as ever, but it wasn't something you would go and touch with a 11-foot pole in a full hazmat suit, it was just immature, and a bunch of people had a quite a bit of fun with it before it really hit rock bottom, so it wasn't really bad at all, just immature. Sure, the staffing choice was questionable, but it was a fun place to be at for the time it lasted. The only reason I can think of why you hate it so dearly is because you were exiled from the place, and that was because you were kind of a dick and you criticized everyone all the time, and nobody really likes that in the first place.