Super Mario Bros. X Forums

OK, this issue was brought up on NSMBX a while ago before it got merged into SMBX:R (or was it on Knux's?), but I don't think anything actually took place and the rule is still there.
The issue that I am talking about is the backseat moderating rule, and I got the inspiration to make this topic after reading one specific post that told a user not to backseat moderate.

First of all, what is backseat moderating?
This is when a user posts in a thread telling them to follow the rules, and that they're breaking the rules.

What do the staff say about it?
According to the staff, it's against the rules and you should not do it.

When moderators say that its against the rules to backseat moderate, it is pretty much like me saying to read the rules before posting, and the moderators would say that it is against the rules to say that. This is because mentioning the rules is making a person aware of the rules here.

If a staff member says not to do it, then the user who was backseat moderating would be put into a position like a character from a television show who was causing trouble, trying to help. but then, no backseat moderation seems kind of a dumb rule, as it only wastes time saying "don't backseat moderate" and also causes trouble like someone would then reply "ok sorry", which is a useless post. This may cause another staff member to tell the other user who said "ok sorry" not to make useless posts.

Is it in the rules?
Yes, it is in the rules. Joey even posted a pic to show us that backseat moderating should not be taken and that the Report button exists for a purpose. Here it is again:
But try applying it to real life situations. You're in school, and you see a kid being bullied in the playground. What would you do? Would you go and tell a teacher, or would you tell off the bully? Backseat moderating is the equivalent of telling off the bully, and trying to enforce the rules. If you wanted to use the Report button, that's the same as telling the teacher that someone was being bullied, and...You can't! You would be expelled or punished for doing so!

This brings me onto the fact that a lot of the time, this rule is often misinterpreted. Here's an example I found from back in July in a thread:

DimitrisPowerSeven wrote:Projects and episodes need screenshots

Valtteri wrote:Don't backseat moderate, DimitrisPowerSeven. jetace98, please get something done before posting a collaboration. You have 24 hours to post screenshots or your topic will be locked.

To be honest, the second post was redundant. DmitrisPowerSeven already told jetace98 to post screenshots, and he was only kindly enforcing the rules, so how is it backseat moderating? To be honest, it's impossible to say that a project/level/graphic needs screenshots without it seeming like backseat moderating. In this case, it wasn't backseat moderating, he was just pointing some stuff out to a new user.

My point is that many threads have been closed due to backseat moderation, which means that many, many moderators these days misinterpret the meaning of it, or that the term has lost its original meaning, which isn't helped by the fact that the rule's explanations are very woolly. I suggest we should change this rule around, making it have more detailed explanations, or just get rid of it altogether. What do you think?

The way I see backseat moderating is when someone constantly tells other people what to do. If somebody just makes a post reminding somebody to post screenshots, that's fine, because that's helpful. Helpful people = good.

If somebody is constantly enforcing the rules and telling others what to do, that's backseat moderating. If I were to tell somebody to "please don't make one word posts", I would just be reminding them of the rules, not necessarily backseat moderating. If I went and told a shit ton of people that same exact thing, that would be enforcing the rules and backseat moderating.

Backseat moderating is not a bad thing at all, and I don't know why it's against the rules. Yes, moderators can do things, but if you have a veteran user telling a new user to some rules, like "please don't make one word posts", that's perfectly fine and it doesn't hurt anyone. The staff doesn't have to be the only one reminding people of the rules, as long as the non-staff users are not enforcing it frequently.

The purpose of the backseat moderating rule is to stop others from trying to act like a moderator and verbally warn other users by themselves. The moderator job would be hardly necessary if backseat moderating was allowed, because verbally warning someone is what a moderator is doing, most of the times at least. While I disagree with making it a rule and punishing other users for breaking it, backseat moderating is not something you're supposed to do, and since you can simply report it instead, there's no reason to make a big deal out of it. Why would you want to post a verbal warning? Just report it and leave it to the staff, that's all about it.

As a registered user, it isn't your job to enforce the rules.

Joey wrote:As a registered user, it isn't your job to enforce the rules.

^

This. Registered users are here to enjoy their stay in the forums, befriend some people, and post their stuff and such. Global Moderators in the other hand are here to do those and enforce the rules. Backseat Moderating isn't allowed because the Staff is here to help, the userbase may help the Staff by reporting posts, and by the way, that's why we actually have a Report button in case you haven't seen that sexy image Joey made illustrating us how to report a post, which I thank him by the way.

Something I would like to remark is that School and Forums are just not alike. Unlike School, no one can actually do physical harm to you, so the Staff can actually do something and thank you for saying what was happening. Verbal harm can mostly be avoided by simply ignoring the ones performing said harm, like insulting, talking bad about you or your family, and such. Because it is significantly easier to actually do things here than IRL the Staff is trying to enforce the Backseat Moderating rule so that they realize that they do not have to do any of that. The Staff can also check by themselves if a project has or doesn't have screenshots/download links, so there's no point on saying so yourself if the rule if going to be enforced later on.

I would like to ask you all, if the rule is going to be enforced anyway why Backseat Moderate in the first place? It's not like you're going to be awarded for the most mature user in the whole world ... you won't even be considered mature, let's not even talk about awards. The Staff has things to take care of, and it is their job, so making things easier for them is like a complete stranger going to your workplace and helping you out. Your boss just won't tolerate it, it's just not ok.

With this said hope you've been illustrated by my wisdom, don't post this again. HAHA, no seriously stop with the Backseat Moderating rule being useless threads, you won't reach what you're asking for, unless you want a warning, that may be given.

Use the report button.
If you just tell the person to stop doing what they're doing, they might ignore you or not take you seriously. If a moderator tells them to stop, they will treat the offense more seriously that if you were to say it. This also guarantees that the problems are solved and that the users are notified that it is, indeed, against the rules. Knowing this community, there are a bunch of people who don't (and never did) read the rules of the board. Your post won't seem like they are actually breaking the rules 100% of the time, so the chance of the issue repeating increases.

Also you can't lock a topic without screenshots, so stop posting. Only mods (LJs included) can, which is why you use the report button.

Kyo wrote:The purpose of the backseat moderating rule is to stop others from trying to act like a moderator and verbally warn other users by themselves.

There's also the slowed reaction time since backseat moderators tend not to report the post leaving LJs (in some cases), mods, and admins to find it on their own. Back when the forums were being spammed was the best example of this, since people would quote gore, thus duplicating it, and tell the spammers who are only here to spam to not do that. It just slows everyone down and makes things harder, but under normal circumstances it's still pretty annoying to see backseat moderation without reports.

And yet I've been in trouble for "abusing the report button" for reasoning like "let the staff do their job"

Seriously?

krazykat wrote:And yet I've been in trouble for "abusing the report button" for reasoning like "let the staff do their job"

Seriously?

Back-seat moderatingception!

To be honest, you shouldn't waste you time with posts that break the rules. Just report it.


Also, valterri did misinterpret it tho.

What's the purpose of backseat moderating?

...exactly. It has no purpose. Let the staff members do their job. They're there for a reason. And pretty much everything everyone else said.

I find that if I end up backseat moderating at any point I'd use the report button on the offending post anyway. Just because we're normal registered users doesn't mean we can't help out and remind newer users of the rules. If it was an older user who was abusing the rules, I wouldn't bother backseat moderating and I'd just report and move on. The only time I would backseat moderate is when a new user makes a mistake, it would be nice to remind them, the staff don't have to be the only ones doing stuff around here.

And besides, like KoolKat said, he got warned for abusing the report button, as did I (by Quill, iirc), so that kind of defeats the purpose of using it.

krazykat wrote:And yet I've been in trouble for "abusing the report button" for reasoning like "let the staff do their job"

Seriously?

If that was the reason, then there's obviously more to it than report abuse. And if you got in trouble for report abuse, you probably reported quite a lot, and many of those reports weren't even justified/not even a rule-break.

I too report a lot and many posts I reported weren't breaking the rules, but I didn't ever go in trouble for report abuse.

Anyway, I don't see any reason of backseat moderating, as Kep said.

Kyo wrote:

krazykat wrote:And yet I've been in trouble for "abusing the report button" for reasoning like "let the staff do their job"

Seriously?

If that was the reason, then there's obviously more to it than report abuse. And if you got in trouble for report abuse, you probably reported quite a lot, and many of those reports weren't even justified/not even a rule-break.

If I recall, there were a bunch of reports between two users about a mafia argument where next to none of them needed reports. There were also a bunch of upreps and downreps for dumb reasons over this argument. So like Kyo said, you got in trouble because there were reports that weren't justified.

Christian07 wrote:I too report a lot and many posts I reported weren't breaking the rules, but I didn't ever go in trouble for report abuse.

Anyway, I don't see any reason of backseat moderating, as Kep said.

There isn't an option for no screenies though on a level. But I think we do need to use the report button.

lighthouse64 wrote:

Christian07 wrote:I too report a lot and many posts I reported weren't breaking the rules, but I didn't ever go in trouble for report abuse.

Anyway, I don't see any reason of backseat moderating, as Kep said.

There isn't an option for no screenies though on a level. But I think we do need to use the report button.

If there isn't the cause of the report you are making among the options, you have to use the blank field.

Christian07 wrote:

lighthouse64 wrote:

Christian07 wrote:I too report a lot and many posts I reported weren't breaking the rules, but I didn't ever go in trouble for report abuse.

Anyway, I don't see any reason of backseat moderating, as Kep said.

There isn't an option for no screenies though on a level. But I think we do need to use the report button.

If there isn't the cause of the report you are making among the options, you have to use the blank field.

Oh, thx for telling me I didn't know.