Opinion regarding some LJs reviews.

Fuyu · Postby **Fuyu** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:37 pm

*NOTE TO THE STAFF: Before locking this thread I would like the staff to check on other people's answers and considering what I'm about to say as something that should be discussed. Thanks for taking your time.

Ok, so let me start this thread saying that I do not want to pick up a fight or antagonize any of the LJs. I've seen some reviews, and by some I mean a very few, like two or three that I want to talk about. Now, entering the main problem about them is that they tend to be rather self-focused. While it is ok to include it in some parts of a review, said opinion should by all means not alter the level's score. Reviews' scores should be calculated off of indifferent descriptions, without any intervention by the impressions of the LJ. If people would like their levels to be reviewed that way they could easily just ask their friends about the level they made, they would give a somewhat similar answer as some judges here, and if any of you guys are going to tell me that is not true, I would like some fundamentals.

Now, regarding some opinions that are involved in the decremental of levels' scores that I've seen are the following ones:
* The level is short, it ended before I even started to have fun.
Unless the level is extremely short which would took around 30 to 45 seconds to beat, saying that the level is too short and decreasing the score because of that is rather selfish. You're not playing your level, you're playing somebody else's, so you will mostly never find a level that matches your tastes regarding length.
* There was nothing original in this level.
If you're looking for something original I'd suggest you to watch some crazy YouTube videos. There are some of them that show people making crazy stuff out of junk. But seriously dude, lowering the score of a level because you didn't find something original? A level doesn't have to be original to be good, you should know that better than anybody else.
* There are no custom graphics.
I think I shouldn't be bringing up this just when people started to forgot about this. I haven't seen much comments about this kind of criticism, but that doesn't mean there aren't.

I would love to point some others out, but I think you guys get my point. The level you judges are reviewing aren't yours, but other people's. Don't expect the level to be the way you want and lower the score of it because you got disappointed. You made your own assumptions, fall off the comfy hallucination you had without taking the level's true quality down.

zioy · Postby **zioy** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:39 pm

This is so true, that if it were any more true the universe would implode thrice.

Postby **Valentine** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:04 pm

I agree with this 110%

AirShip · Postby **AirShip** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:05 pm

I agree with everything he's said here.

zioy · Postby **zioy** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:07 pm

Little Boo wrote:I agree with this 110%

I agree with it OVER 9000%

silent_ · Postby **silent_** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:33 pm

I've never seen a level judge take points off for no custom graphics

And if one is as selfish to do so, they need demoted

Anyway, I agree, and as a reviewer, the most "oponiony" think I would take points off for is difficulty and clash, but I don't think these are opinions, so...

Fuyu · Postby **Fuyu** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:38 pm

Kep wrote:Anyway, I agree, and as a reviewer, the most "oponiony" think I would take points off for is difficulty and clash, but I don't think these are opinions, so...

In fact, clash can be considered both, as an indifferent description and opinion, many people may think of stuff fitting together while other people won't. But yeah, that's as far as a LJ should change a level's score.

TLtimelord · Postby **TLtimelord** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:49 pm

Natsu, can you PM me some specific examples of where you are seeing this? I'm not denying it or anything.

Postby **Shadow Yoshi** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:12 pm

Natsu wrote:* The level is short, it ended before I even started to have fun.

I don't see a problem with judges not liking the length of a level. Shouldn't bear much weight on the score, though.

Natsu wrote:* There was nothing original in this level.

Perfectly valid reason to not like a level. Like short levels, it shouldn't bear that much weight on the score, but still legitimate.

Natsu wrote:* There are no custom graphics.

This is the only one I agree with - having no custom graphics is fine unless the level obviously needs them.

Fuyu · Postby **Fuyu** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:24 pm

Joey wrote:
Natsu wrote:* The level is short, it ended before I even started to have fun.
I don't see a problem with judges not liking the length of a level. Shouldn't bear much weight on the score, though.

Natsu wrote:* There was nothing original in this level.
Perfectly valid reason to not like a level. Like short levels, it shouldn't bear that much weight on the score, but still legitimate.

Natsu wrote:* There are no custom graphics.
This is the only one I agree with - having no custom graphics is fine unless the level obviously needs them.

Yes, this the weight is the problem. I personally find it off for these to have any weight on the score, but it is still bothering.

zioy · Postby **zioy** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:25 pm

Honestly, clash is mostly an opinion but should be counted off for (but only 1-2/10 points depending on its severity).

zlaker · Postby **zlaker** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:25 pm

If the level is really lacking I really think it would need custom GFXs.

zioy · Postby **zioy** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:27 pm

Well, custom graphics can make a level feel fresh and new, but the lack thereof should not take off any point unless an additional graphic is needed/looks way better

Beyond · Postby **Beyond** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:51 pm

Just my opinion: If the atmosphere isn't fine, we need some alternatives, like a more original level or some new things to add. Or recreate an old atmosphere with perfection. It's not just because a level don't is original. It's because of the atmosphere too. It's the only point I don't agree with you. I'll play a boring level, with the same system and gimmicks repeated in a thousand other levels and he can not put his own style in his own level. I have to say: Your level is not original. And it's a bad thing. But originality is a relative concept too.

Postby **Raster** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:38 am

Natsu wrote:* The level is short, it ended before I even started to have fun.
Unless the level is extremely short which would took around 30 to 45 seconds to beat, saying that the level is too short and decreasing the score because of that is rather selfish

Mind you, I don't see anything selfish in that.

Postby **Julia Pseudo** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:11 am

I agree with your whole post, Natsu, but I feel like the concept of people saying "no custom graphics = bad level" is more of a stereotype of our community rather than something that happens all the time, or at least as often as people seem to portray it as. Vanilla levels are really great, and I don't see that many people saying they aren't.

Granted, I don't visit the levels forums nearly as much as I used to and it might be a big issue with reviews now, I can't say for sure.

YouTube · Postby **bossedit8** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:21 am

Yeah, I've seen some Members who focuses also on customized graphics on someones Level which is in my opinion not always right because you can always make a Level by default so it should not always focus on custom Graphics. I mean sure, custom graphics can be appealing and look differently on a Level Theme and so on but default graphics are also there to get into nostalgia graphics.

silent_ · Postby **silent_** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:38 am

Joey wrote:I don't see a problem with judges not liking the length of a level. Shouldn't bear much weight on the score, though.

In a lot of KoolKat's and MyNameIsEric52's levels, unofficial and even some official judges were really complaining about shortness and obviously took points off for it since the score was so low.

bossedit8 wrote:Yeah, I've seen some Members (Example: @Murphmario) who focuses also on customized graphics on someones Level which is in my opinion not always right because you can always make a Level by default so it should not always focus on custom Graphics. I mean sure, custom graphics can be appealing and look differently on a Level Theme and so on but default graphics are also there to get into nostalgia graphics.

If I were you, I wouldn't single out users in the future because it can make others and even you look bad. No need to listen to me or anything, but just saying.

Fuyu · Postby **Fuyu** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

@Bayond: We're stuck with a program that won't release any more updates, and ideas for levels are starting run out. There are a lot of them, and yeah, people will probably never come up with one of them, making their level "not original", but like I said, and you said as well, originality is a relative concept, and because of that, judging a level with said concept is rather self-centred. I was about to say "biased", but I don't think of you as someone that wouldn't consider other views considering your post.

I believe in SMBX:R or somewhere else there was a thread with possible factors judges/regular users could use to review a level. Said factors were indifferent, therefore what this forum's judges should focus on, in my opinion of course. I just wish that thread was brought back here so people could check it out and use it to avoid these kind of self-centred points.

Beyond · Postby **Beyond** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:11 am

But if I feel I need to talk about originality, I'll talk. Some levels end up being bad for not having great attractions. Sometimes it's not even a matter of innovation, but the lack of a main element/feature. I speak about originality when I look at a level and the atmosphere is really bad. And I usually discount points by the lack of things to add content to the level, not the originality itself, although I like to quote. Anyway, I feel I need to do some improvements as one LJ and I will upgrade my review system. Thank you.