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So I was wondering about this a long time.

Gays and lesbians are both homosexual, but why do people think being gay is much worse than being lesbian? It actually is exactly the same. Or not?

I think it's because people (mostly men) think lesbians are hot, cause two nice looking girls kissing each other is not looking bad. And they think when men do it, it is weird and not masculine which is something people want to be these days. I don't know how women think about this, I'm not female.

What's your opinion on this?

So yea, I'm sorry for grammatical errors and confusion, I'm really tired atm :p

Also inb4 people think I'm homosexual, I'm not. Neither I am bi.

This is actually a really interesting question, and the answer is misogyny.

Society thinks that being female is something bad. Women are viewed as objects for the pleasure of men, and get sexualized.

And because society thinks that all gay men are flamboyant and feminin, this is viewed as something bad. Lesbians are "okay" in society's eyes because guys can get pleasure out of watching lesbian porn, that means they can serve as sexual objects and therefore are "usefull".

It's a men's world after all.

Also this is one of the reasons we need feminism.

Gays and lesbians are both homosexual, but why do people think being gay is much worse than being lesbian? It actually is exactly the same. Or not?

What GLuigiX said. Misogyny made it so women are over-sexualized and two women making out is "hot". Two men kissing is considered a grave offense probably by the same people (who are misogynistic)

After all, people would rather see two men fighting than kissing each other.

GLuigiX wrote:This is actually a really interesting question, and the answer is misogyny.

Society thinks that being female is something bad. Women are viewed as objects for the pleasure of men, and get sexualized.

And because society thinks that all gay men are flamboyant and feminin, this is viewed as something bad. Lesbians are "okay" in society's eyes because guys can get pleasure out of watching lesbian porn, that means they can serve as sexual objects and therefore are "usefull".

It's a men's world after all.

Also this is one of the reasons we need feminism.

After saying that this shouldn't be a topic anymore.
ON TOPIC: yea....

You mean double standards?
GLuigiX: Don't bring feminism into this, it will only make things worse lol.

montague wrote:You mean double standards?
GLuigiX: Don't bring feminism into this, it will only make things worse lol.

You need to learn the difference between feminists and femnazis lol.

Femnazis are the ones that want men to die out (mind you I'm a guy too) and women need more rights than men and blah blah

Feminism is just about equality between the genders.

This not only goes as far as "women need the same rights as men" this actually affects men too.

First of all, if you're a man and you're flamboyant/feminin you're looked down upon, because being feminin in this society equals being weak and being masculin means being strong.

It also goes as far as defending men, for example when it comes to child custody. Women are usually favored in this case because they're the mothers who were pregnant with the child. It is assumed that mothers have a closer connection to their children as the father.

Feminism is basically about equality for all genders, male, female, transgender. Feminism is for everyone. Feminist doesn't mean that you're a men-hating hag (stereotypically also a lesbian). Being a feminist means that you want equality for everyone.

Feminism is just about equality between the genders.

Funny that, considering it focusses entirely on women, it seems.

First of all, if you're a man and you're flamboyant/feminin you're looked down upon, because being feminin in this society equals being weak and being masculin means being strong.

It also goes as far as defending men, for example when it comes to child custody. Women are usually favored in this case because they're the mothers who were pregnant with the child. It is assumed that mothers have a closer connection to their children as the father.

Feminism is basically about equality for all genders, male, female, transgender. Feminism is for everyone. Feminist doesn't mean that you're a men-hating hag (stereotypically also a lesbian). Being a feminist means that you want equality for everyone.

So, really, you're looking for equality in general.

Feminism was beneficial in its first and second wave movements, but now it's a complete joke. Feminism is a very controversial subject, too.

I think we should get back on-topic.

Feminism has done its job in many countries, but there's still a long way to go in countries where women have no rights. And yeah feminism isn't just about women's rights; it's about the equality of both genders.

Nah I think the dumb part of society think both gay and lesbian are equally same. Tho you see much more male gay bashing in the media.

GLuigiX wrote:This is actually a really interesting question, and the answer is misogyny.

Society thinks that being female is something bad. Women are viewed as objects for the pleasure of men, and get sexualized.

And because society thinks that all gay men are flamboyant and feminin, this is viewed as something bad. Lesbians are "okay" in society's eyes because guys can get pleasure out of watching lesbian porn, that means they can serve as sexual objects and therefore are "usefull".

It's a men's world after all.

Also this is one of the reasons we need feminism.

I couldn't disagree with this more. Let's start from the beginning.

"Society thinks that being female is something bad. Women are viewed as objects for the pleasure of men, and get sexualized."

These are just assertions, and blanket assumptions at that. In civilized societies such as the United States and most European Countries, women and men are treated like human beings by one another with differences kept in mind. You did say that women get sexualized, however you've omitted the sexualization of men as well. The best example of this would be male modelling and gay pornography where, usually attractive, men are used as an object for a woman's own pleasure. Take a look at men's boxer shorts commercials and look at the similarities between the men presented to get an idea of what I'm trying to say.

"And because society thinks that all gay men are flamboyant and feminine, this is viewed as something bad. Lesbians are "okay" in society's eyes because guys can get pleasure out of watching lesbian porn, that means they can serve as sexual objects and therefore are "usefull"."

I'd challenge the idea that society that society thinks ALL gay men are flamboyant and feminine. Also, what makes you think that society thinking of gay men being flamboyant and feminine is a bad thing? In my opinion sacrificing masculine traits that are usually, yet not always, exclusive to boys and men IS a bad thing. Traits such as instinctive protection of offspring which comes from the testosterone difference between men and women are just as important as women's traits of caring for the same offspring. The diversity between men and women here should be acknowledged, and treated as equal and neither one is worse nor better than the other.

For your statement on lesbian porn, please read what I wrote above about gay porn also being used as objectification of men for women's pleasure.

"It's a men's world after all."

Yeah, I mean women don't have any roles in any governments in the entire world and don't have the opportunity for those roles as men. Right?

"Also this is one of the reasons we need feminism."

This is what takes the cake for me. From your post it seems like the research you've done was browsing rhetoric on tumblr blogs. I don't think I can really change your mind on this because of how far into a person's identity these things go. Instead, I'd ask you to look more into different ideas and look at the similarities and differences between men and women as well as in the terms of homosexuality. Biology is always a good place to start, and one of the best explanations of differences between men and women (that aren't biased one way or the other) is Sexual dimorphism. Here's a YouTuber who has made videos on the topics of feminism and other things as well. Factual Feminist also makes videos on women's issues from a feminist perspective unlike the previously mentioned YouTuber if he doesn't fit your taste.

Feminazis, I just got that. anyways I think we should just put aside our differences and join as one.

Superiorstar wrote:Feminazis, I just got that. anyways I think we should just put aside our differences and join as one.

What is putting aside our differences really going to do? Even if everyone somehow were able to put them beside, they're still there. Why not just let it be that everyone is different and an individual (not one) and judge people by their character?

These are just assertions, and blanket assumptions at that. In civilized societies such as the United States and most European Countries, women and men are treated like human beings by one another with differences kept in mind. You did say that women get sexualized, however you've omitted the sexualization of men as well. The best example of this would be male modelling and gay pornography where, usually attractive, men are used as an object for a woman's own pleasure. Take a look at men's boxer shorts commercials and look at the similarities between the men presented to get an idea of what I'm trying to say.

This argument falls short when you realize women are sexualized a lot more than men. I don't really get what you're trying to prove here.

I'd challenge the idea that society that society thinks ALL gay men are flamboyant and feminine. Also, what makes you think that society thinking of gay men being flamboyant and feminine is a bad thing?

Making a generalization of an entire community based off a small group of people isn't a bad thing?

Yeah, I mean women don't have any roles in any governments in the entire world and don't have the opportunity for those roles as men. Right?

You're not going to see a woman in a high position of authority in Islamist governments, or countries where women basically have no rights in front of men. Come on, this was painfully obvious since the premise.

And I find it funny how you say he probably got info on feminism from Tumblr blogs then proceed to link him to a Youtube video.

GhostHawk wrote:

Superiorstar wrote:Feminazis, I just got that. anyways I think we should just put aside our differences and join as one.

What is putting aside our differences really going to do? Even if everyone somehow were able to put them beside, they're still there. Why not just let it be that everyone is different and an individual (not one) and judge people by their character?

So what your saying is, your against world peace?

Raster wrote:

These are just assertions, and blanket assumptions at that. In civilized societies such as the United States and most European Countries, women and men are treated like human beings by one another with differences kept in mind. You did say that women get sexualized, however you've omitted the sexualization of men as well. The best example of this would be male modelling and gay pornography where, usually attractive, men are used as an object for a woman's own pleasure. Take a look at men's boxer shorts commercials and look at the similarities between the men presented to get an idea of what I'm trying to say.

This argument falls short when you realize women are sexualized a lot more than men. I don't really get what you're trying to prove here.

Well, I don't see sexualization wherever I go, and nobody has proved that women are more sexualized. It's been stated. Not proven.

Raster wrote:

I'd challenge the idea that society that society thinks ALL gay men are flamboyant and feminine. Also, what makes you think that society thinking of gay men being flamboyant and feminine is a bad thing?

Making a generalization of an entire community based off a small group of people isn't a bad thing?

If you didn't cut off the quote at that point I would sound like I'm doing that. I think I explained enough after that about the importance of masculinity in men to be a counterpoint to femininity in men being unquestionably acceptable.

Raster wrote:

Yeah, I mean women don't have any roles in any governments in the entire world and don't have the opportunity for those roles as men. Right?

You're not going to see a woman in a high position of authority in Islamist governments, or countries where women basically have no rights in front of men. Come on, this was painfully obvious since the premise.

Yes, I'm aware of this however GLuigiX was saying this is a man's world and I was pointing out it's not entirely true. Speaking of Islamist governments, why aren't feminists yelling about that everyday?

Raster wrote:And I find it funny how you say he probably got info on feminism from Tumblr blogs then proceed to link him to a Youtube video.

My intent is for him to look more into different ideas, so I gave him resources I think he would use. I could just as easily link him to peer reviewed studies on the nuances of sexuality and societal views, but something tells me that isn't the most effective start.

I'm ok with differences between men and women, but that doesn't mean there strictly HAS to be a difference between men and women, ignoring biological structure of course. I've met many women and men, being all of them different, either fitting your perfect definition of feminist, feminine or whatever you want to think of. And in my opinion, they are perfect as they are, because they are unique.

GhostHawk wrote:Well, I don't see sexualization wherever I go, and nobody has proved that women are more sexualized. It's been stated. Not proven.

It's something widely accepted and endorsed by media. While there is sexualization of both genders, women are sexualized everywhere from magazines to music videos. Also note this thread isn't revolved around proven facts but how society views sexualization of genders, and in this case women are clearly more sexualized. We don't have to prove it exactly.

GhostHawk wrote:Yes, I'm aware of this however GLuigiX was saying this is a man's world and I was pointing out it's not entirely true. Speaking of Islamist governments, why aren't feminists yelling about that everyday?

It's a man's world in the context of men having more rights than women worldwide. Being a male can earn you a position of authority pretty much everywhere in the world. Being a woman restricts your rights in certain countries and regions, so I wouldn't say it's a woman's world as much as it's a man's world.
You don't see feminists yelling about women's rights in Islamist countries because it's highly unlikely that they can achieve anything there anyway.

GhostHawk wrote:My intent is for him to look more into different ideas, so I gave him resources I think he would use. I could just as easily link him to peer reviewed studies on the nuances of sexuality and societal views, but something tells me that isn't the most effective start.

I think he understands the concepts of feminism well enough and outlined them in his posts.

Raster wrote:

GhostHawk wrote:Well, I don't see sexualization wherever I go, and nobody has proved that women are more sexualized. It's been stated. Not proven.

It's something widely accepted and endorsed by media. While there is sexualization of both genders, women are sexualized everywhere from magazines to music videos. Also note this thread isn't revolved around proven facts but how society views sexualization of genders, and in this case women are clearly more sexualized. We don't have to prove it exactly.

Well there's not really much I can say to that when facts and proof aren't seen as relevant.

Raster wrote:

GhostHawk wrote:Yes, I'm aware of this however GLuigiX was saying this is a man's world and I was pointing out it's not entirely true. Speaking of Islamist governments, why aren't feminists yelling about that everyday?

It's a man's world in the context of men having more rights than women worldwide. Being a male can earn you a position of authority pretty much everywhere in the world. Being a woman restricts your rights in certain countries and regions, so I wouldn't say it's a woman's world as much as it's a man's world.

Now that I can agree with. In my opinion the feminist movement would be beneficial in those types of countries. Personally I'd think a humanist movement would work better, but we don't live in a perfect world.

Raster wrote:You don't see feminists yelling about women's rights in Islamist countries because it's highly unlikely that they can achieve anything there anyway.

The same thing was said in during the early feminist movement's in America. Look up Malala Yousafzai, and her impact simply by readingand going to school in spite of terrorist threats. It can, and should be done.

Raster wrote:

GhostHawk wrote:My intent is for him to look more into different ideas, so I gave him resources I think he would use. I could just as easily link him to peer reviewed studies on the nuances of sexuality and societal views, but something tells me that isn't the most effective start.

I think he understands the concepts of feminism well enough and outlined them in his posts.

All I saw in his post were talking points, and I believe he's intelligent enough to read more into the argument and I was trying to direct him to different ideas.

GhostHawk wrote:Well there's not really much I can say to that when facts and proof aren't seen as relevant.

Sure they are. We're just also considering ideas and statements that aren't necessarily facts. With this said, sexualization of lesbians especially in music videos is considered hot by the media, but would the same apply for gay males?

GhostHawk wrote:The same thing was said in during the early feminist movement's in America. Look up Malala Yousafzai, and her impact simply by readingand going to school in spite of terrorist threats. It can, and should be done.

It's not that simple. Islamists have lived treating women as slaves and women have had limited rights because of factors such as religion. We're talking about something a lot more complex here, and I doubt feminists can fix the issue by themselves.

FOR GODS SAKE I JUST WANTED TO EXPLAIN THE BASIC MEANING OF FEMINISM TO SOMEONE ;-;