Hate speech

aero · Postby **aero** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:55 pm

I think hate speech should be protected as free speech. Before you shoot me, let me explain. If hate speech was to be protected then that would mean the government can't prevent you from saying what you believe no matter how hateful. This would allow people to hear just how horrible what you're advocating or discussing is. For example, if the Klan wanted to have a rally, people would see how wrong they are/how right they are (depending on what type of person you are) and have a better informed understanding of their position to make a judgement. I'd support this far more than relying on the media and government to say what is and isn't hate speech and say how far you can go with it. I mean, if you pressure people to say certain things/not say things then you're most likely going to breed more anger and rebellion than tolerance.

Thoughts?

michel · Postby **michel** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:08 pm

I support free speech even if someone is holding a sign that promotes satanism and that God is not real

Free speech is everything
I think everyone should have the right to say anything, anywhere

Postby **Shadow Yoshi** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:37 pm

I can't say I agree, but it also depends on the definition of hate speech.

Two wrongs don't make a right; within reason, just because someone is doing something wrong or something you disagree with doesn't make it okay to persecute them (e.g. the Klan). However, if "yo KKK, I disagree with what you're doing" is considered hate speech, then maybe we should rework our definition of hate speech.

HeroOfRhyme · Postby **HeroOfRhyme** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:41 pm

I agree. Free speech is free for a reason. Everyone should be given the right to promote what they believe in.

aero · Postby **aero** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:59 pm

Joey wrote:I can't say I agree, but it also depends on the definition of hate speech.

Two wrongs don't make a right; within reason, just because someone is doing something wrong or something you disagree with doesn't make it okay to persecute them (e.g. the Klan). However, if "yo KKK, I disagree with what you're doing" is considered hate speech, then maybe we should rework our definition of hate speech.

I meant hate speech as in violently against a particular group such as what the Westboro Baptist church is saying about gays, and the Klan about minorities. So with that said "yo KKK, I disagree with what you're doing" wouldn't be hate speech.

Postby **Julia Pseudo** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:27 am

I agree with you, GhostHawk. It should definitely fall under the category of free speech as long as the hateful people don't actually do anything violent. The current definitions are a little too arbitrary as Joey described, and though it's hard to say and hate speech is an awful thing, it doesn't actually directly harm anybody, so it should fall under free speech. That's my take on this.

Magician · Postby **Magician** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:15 am

A lot of people disguise hate speech by making themselves look like victims of the people they're speaking against. I actually saw a group on facebook the other day about how trans women were really just men who seek to infiltrate women's washrooms and rape/assault women. THAT is hate speech. It's ignorant and it's statistically false, and it aims to oppress transgender people (who far more likely to be the victims of violence than the cause). And I just kind of wonder if these things persist, despite opposition, simply because they're considered as a responsible argument to be engaged with.
Ideally, free speech suggests that they get their bad ideas out in the sun so that those ideas can be ridiculed, but humans by nature seem to be way too receptive to poor logic. Free speech only seems to work when we are constantly aware of that, but I routinely discover otherwise.

Does that mean I think free speech should be abolished? I mean, no. I dunno. I'm not sure that the government controlling it is any better. I just feel pretty defeatist about the whole thing.

Postby **Raster** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:30 am

What exactly is a hate speech though?

If it's just a speech full of hateful remarks then we shouldn't endorse that. There should be no place for hatred in this forum. If we're talking posts that critique someone or certain elements of this forum in a negativistic way, then I believe it's okay as long as the poster keeps it civil and doesn't present his/her opinion as fact. With that said, I personally don't support any kind of hateful posts and would rather remove them on sight than turn them into fierce arguments.

aero · Postby **aero** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:05 am

Raster wrote:What exactly is a hate speech though?

If it's just a speech full of hateful remarks then we shouldn't endorse that. There should be no place for hatred in this forum. If we're talking posts that critique someone or certain elements of this forum in a negativistic way, then I believe it's okay as long as the poster keeps it civil and doesn't present his/her opinion as fact. With that said, I personally don't support any kind of hateful posts and would rather remove them on sight than turn them into fierce arguments.

I'm talking about society, not the forums. I agree it shouldn't be endorsed, however it should be held to the same standard as all speech and let the argument take place on a level playing field even if the hate speech meets the "wrong" ears.

Postby **Raster** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:23 am

GhostHawk wrote:
Raster wrote:What exactly is a hate speech though?

If it's just a speech full of hateful remarks then we shouldn't endorse that. There should be no place for hatred in this forum. If we're talking posts that critique someone or certain elements of this forum in a negativistic way, then I believe it's okay as long as the poster keeps it civil and doesn't present his/her opinion as fact. With that said, I personally don't support any kind of hateful posts and would rather remove them on sight than turn them into fierce arguments.
I'm talking about society, not the forums. I agree it shouldn't be endorsed, however it should be held to the same standard as all speech and let the argument take place on a level playing field even if the hate speech meets the "wrong" ears.

Sorry, I misread the OP. Still. I don't think it should be accepted because it's not a beneficial form of speech. No matter how you look at it, hate speech is bound to stem hate in people's minds and often cause more harm than good. Hate is never a proper answer, especially when the topic at hand targets a large demographic.

TangledLion · Postby **TangledLion** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:54 pm

(A political discussion may make it easier to make enemies rather than friends, but whaevs)
Ok, here is where I stand on all this, as long as it is words, it IS considered Free Speech, However:

Freedom of speech Isn't free, for Example: If a man spoke up and said:(Mind you I don't believe this) "N******(Black folk) are a Sickness, a plague that infects our fine society. These dogs have been wild long enough, it is time to track em' all down and kill Them All!!!"(Insert more N, And F-Bombs at over own discretion) he has EVERY RIGHT TO SAY THAT, BUT;

*I* Have every right to tell everyone I know that this man is wrong, and to boycott anything that supports him, "Freedom of Speech" As a constitutional right ONLY restricts the government from Doing anything to Silence him (Though they CAN put him in a Watch-list...). That means if he says this on a forum,(Or FB, Twitter, YouTube Etc.) as long the Government dosen't force them to, they can Delete his speech, Ban his IP Etc.

aero · Postby **aero** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:57 pm

I agree in part to that. The last part where you gave the example of saying "kill Them All!!!" is inciting violence which already isn't protected as free speech. Just wanted to point that out, but otherwise I agree.

TangledLion · Postby **TangledLion** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:07 am

Yeah, i kinda did a Worst-case, but it was to get my point across as, racism(The REAL kind) Is one thing I Agree with liberals on, I'd probably get mobbed if i Even calmly stated my anti-Gay marriage views(Which ARE Real)

Postby **Julia Pseudo** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:22 am

Oh yes, I agree that websites like this and stuff should absolutely retain the right to remove such speech. And yeah attempting to incite violence is definitely a bad thing which shouldn't necessarily be protected in my opinion. But I do think that the government shouldn't get involved in such matters (unless violence is incited as it is here).

Karl Marx · Postby **Karl Marx** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:56 am

Joey wrote:I can't say I agree, but it also depends on the definition of hate speech.

Two wrongs don't make a right; within reason, just because someone is doing something wrong or something you disagree with doesn't make it okay to persecute them (e.g. the Klan). However, if "yo KKK, I disagree with what you're doing" is considered hate speech, then maybe we should rework our definition of hate speech.

there's a fine line between hateful speech and hateful actions

If we continue with the example of the KKK, I'd be fine if the group just held a rally, but when the rally inspires hate crimes against African Americans, then we have a problem, then we have crossed the line

People can say whatever they want, regardless if how hateful/idiotic it may seem, the only problems come when such speech inspires hateful actions, like violence

18mlivingston · Postby **18mlivingston** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:20 pm

Everyone should have the right to say what they want and if I don't like it I just ignore it

lighthouse64 · Postby **lighthouse64** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:30 pm

TangledLion wrote:Yeah, i kinda did a Worst-case, but it was to get my point across as, racism(The REAL kind) Is one thing I Agree with liberals on, I'd probably get mobbed if i Even calmly stated my anti-Gay marriage views(Which ARE Real)

Same views on gay marriage

Postby **Marina** » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:49 pm

Uncle Sam wrote:there's a fine line between hateful speech and hateful actions

If we continue with the example of the KKK, I'd be fine if the group just held a rally, but when the rally inspires hate crimes against African Americans, then we have a problem, then we have crossed the line

People can say whatever they want, regardless if how hateful/idiotic it may seem, the only problems come when such speech inspires hateful actions, like violence

Yeah that's kinda my problem with hate speech. (Using some recent irc arguments as an example) I don't have a problem with people using the word faggot as an insult or gay as a derogatory term. My problem is more that by using these words, they (even if they "don't have anything against gay people") promote the mindset that being gay is something bad, a similar case which Sam mentioned with dark skinned people, would cause hatecrimes. Now anyone will instantly think "noone is that stupid to take it that serious and kill gay people or dark skinned people because of that" which I would agree, noone should be that stupid, but the sad truth is, people ARE that stupid. That's my main problem with hate speech. :/