Animal Cruelty

[aero]

Everyone always talks about animal cruelty being bad, but people still accept that it happens.

What is your opinion on animal cruelty? Is it necessary for science to advance, or feed the population? I don't care what people eat until it's brought up, and the ethical problems seem to go both ways. On the one hand veganism can be the most humane to animals and humans, but there can be negative externalities from their activism that can harm both people and animals. On the other hand those externalities are often blown way out of proportion compared to the consequences of meat and animal product consumption. I think PETA does some great work, and while anyone can take some of their more over the top activism and paint them in a negative light I don't think what their members are doing is worse than what they're fighting against. Discuss.

food for thought:

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[Cedur]

Somewhat a delicate issue. I get confronted with it every once in a while. My mom is 100% vegetarian by heart, but she allows me to have meat on external special occasions sometimes (especially sportive events). But she also confronts me about where this meat is coming from (in case of sports, you can guess it's from trash origin, since clubs skimp on food costs). Frankly I wished "ethical" meat was available, and so I try to avoid meat whenever I can and prefer vegetarian food, but still enjoy it at times. My sister is even more militant of a vegetarian, she tears me off a strip and places herself above me in overbearing self-righteousness. She's what you could indeed call a vegetarian missionary (but I'm the only one who has to bear it). She gets upset over the fact that I consume meat without wanting to look behind the scenes and that I can live with this "cognitive dissonance" (it is one, for sure ... but is it that unethical?).

Here's something important though: I respect meat, I consider it a "cultural artifact", I don't consider it mundane. This is what you call a "flexitarian", and I think it's a good way to meet in the middle between both rationality and instinct. If humanity had learned to be completely vegetarian, there would be way less hunger and way less water scarcity. But we haven't been tought this by evolution; we were hunters and gatherers before we became sedentary and started to cultivate farmland. This is why affinity to meat is innate. When I was in kindergarten, I didn't understand why others were allowed to eat these little crispy looking red sausages and I was not. But this is also why consuming of meat is deemed a standard of development beyond all basic needs. It takes really hard measures to convince an average Joe citizen to give up meat or at least reduce it. Some people wouldn't even care if they were shown the behind-the-scenes mechanics (which are indeed beyond good and evil). If every person in the industrial states would start to reduce their massive consumption by just 50%, a lot would be won. Vegetarism is growing, but vegetarians should try to convince their fellow citizens for a partial reduction, not for a radical abjuration. If you want to stop supporting mass husbandry and any related cruelty but you don't want your life to be changed drastically, go the half way.

[aero]

I completely agree with all that. I like some meat, but I've learned to reduce my consumption a bit and eliminate the more environmentally damaging meats (beef and lamb) from my diet. Now I just try to minimize the amount of meat I eat and when I can't avoid it because of meals with others I opt for chicken or seafood. I also try to look at a meal and see if meat is absolutely necessary. Like do I really need bacon bits? Do I need more than one animal for this meal? Eliminating beef has also been good for my health because of the lack of trans fat, so like losing weight is also a motivator to reduce meat consumption. Also when you realize how little you need, and that there's all kinds of other plant based food out there it makes for a more diverse diet with more room to try different foods. Same thing goes for dairy; you basically don't need any milk beyond infancy and when you look into the "Got Milk?" campaign it's all based on junk science and they're no longer allowed to make claims of improved health because the opposite is observed to be true. So like one won't really lose much by switching to a vegetarian or vegan diet in both health and quality of life, it's a matter of just the will of an individual.

All that being said too, it's not like one burger or steak is going to destroy the environment or makes you a bad person. It's just like one soda or scoop of ice cream won't make someone obese, or one cigarette won't give someone lung cancer. It's the habit that starts pushing things in the wrong direction. A pescetarian and Mediterranean diet has about the same impact on the climate as a vegetarian and vegan diet, and in some ways I'd say they are better for the environment when produced humanely. It's not like it's all or nothing, it's either good or bad, or it's one decision that sets a course. I have no problems with people that kill their own food, or make sure they're not participating in factory farming. I don't even have a problem with people that choose to eat mostly meat. It's just when people bring up their eating habit publicly and think they're beyond reproach and get all worked up and defensive, whether they're vegan or a meat consumer. It's really annoying to see a vegans fighting vegetarians and meat consumers because I do believe they have a noble cause but aren't taking the responsibility to properly communicate about it which goes to just hurt their effort and emboldens the same type of people on the other side of the spectrum that are the type to say "mmm bacon" as a reaction to a slaughter house leak. Luckily more people aren't on the extremes and those far ends are just the loud minority, but it's still important for everyone else to be mindful of what they're eating for the sake of the animals, their health, and the environment.