Is being Homosexual a choice?

[PixelPest]

We were discussing this in classroom because my teacher, Mr. Staley. Asked us does the fight with the LGBT Community similar to the Civil Right Movement.

Homosexuality is definitely not a choice. Why would anybody choose to be discriminated by society? That doesn't make any sense.
I can tell

I really don't think people choose their sexual identity based on social acceptance. I think there are probably some dispositional and/or biological factors but I also think the choose to embrace a certain sexual identity does not stem from conformity, and it doesn't necessarily have to be made blatantly obvious to society that one is a homosexual

[Palwanda]

We were discussing this in classroom because my teacher, Mr. Staley. Asked us does the fight with the LGBT Community similar to the Civil Right Movement.

Homosexuality is definitely not a choice. Why would anybody choose to be discriminated by society? That doesn't make any sense.
I can tell

So you say LGBT people are born to be discriminated by society. Very well

I did say that society tends to discriminate gay people although they are born that way and can't help it and therefore it wouldn't make any sense for them to choose to be gay. My statement was fully pro LGBT. How could you not see that?

[aero]

1. Idk how PYB spinned that to be a negative statement.
2. Appealing to society's expectations and justifying behavior as a circumstance of birth is not a good argument one way or the other.

[Jerrysmbxworld]

So, i believe it's my turn. Homosexuality is more of whom you are. Sexual orientation differs from everyone. To me, it depends on experiences, environmental influence, & how you grow up to feel about being "Gay" or being LGBT in general. You may say your straight, you may have a very close friend, who you view as your best friends. Then after some time later, you start to develop a deep intimacy for him. To me, i think that the reason why there are so many homophobic people out there. They may be scared of having an romantic feelings for a person of the same sex. I do not think being homosexual is genetic as some of you addressed. Sexual preference isn't biologically determined. Perhaps sexual preference can be changed and people have the right to engage in gay sex and have homosexual relationships if they choose to do so. Environment, like genetics, plays an important role in how our behavior develops. I believe a homosexual man can have sexual relations with a straight woman. I do recall an article i have read, several in fact. There "Exclusively" homosexual males were aroused by watching Straight/Lesbian porn. In my opinion anyone can be Homosexual/Bisexual, it just depends on how close of a relationship you have on someone & how you've grown up and been taught about homosexuality.

[Marina]

[...] and it doesn't necessarily have to be made blatantly obvious to society that one is a homosexual

Now this is a scorching hot take so I'd like to talk about this for a minute.

Straight people often say something along the lines of "I don't have anything against them homosexuals but why they gotta be so in my face about it?"
Well? Why are so many LGBT people "out and proud" to the point where it seems like being LGBT is their only personality trait?
Because visibility is important.
We're talking about a marginalized group of people here that can't be identified as being part of that marginalized group unless they speak up about it.
People of color, disabled people and women can be instantly recognized as being part of their group for the most part. But one's sexuality or gender identity isn't obvious to the naked eye unless the person in question chooses to express themselved in a way that indicates that.
This becomes a problem because it voids us of visibility and that leads to stereotypes and us vs. them thinking. It creates the notion that the LGBT community is like a secluded section of society that only LGBT people have access to somehow. Many homophobic people base their opinions of LGBT people off things they hear about them while thinking that they don't actually know anyone that is part of that community while statistically every 10th person around them is LGBT. And that is an underestimation. They don't get the opportunity to view LGBT people as part of their society unless they're exposed to them, and the only way to be exposed to LGBT people and issues is if someone in their environment decides to come out to them.
Now you may say sure, nothing wrong with outing yourself, but why do you act so... gay? Why do some gay men wear make-up? Why do gay women sometimes behave boyish? Because as an LGBT person, your existence alone challenges the rules of society. Hetero"normativity". Many LGBT people suppress themselves all their lifes until they come out, so once they do that, they suddenly realize that they not only have the option to challenge one of societies standards, but all of them. This in combination with the urge to finally freely express themselves leads to results that most straight people find very strange. And that's okay. It is strange. It's supposed to be.

And by making themselves visible, people make clear that they exist, that they are part of our society and that they deserve the same rights as anyone does. Sure you don't have to. In an environment where you could be endangered by coming out, it's perfectly valid to hide. But those that actively express their sexuality and gender do it to challenge the norms of society.

Why it gotta be gay? That's why.

[aero]

small commie hot take: there's a difference between corporate pride, and being visibly LGBT. Corporate pride turns identity into a commodity and mass promotes it causing polarization. Being visibly LGBT is about be honest about who you are and just about everything Aristo said.

[underFlo]

Another aspect of this is that it's not like straight people *don't* broadcast their sexuality out in the open. There's this very unsettling trend of male baby clothes that have lines on them that make it sound like the baby's a playboy or whatever but that's cool because it's the norm haha am i right

in the end i'm glad that we're in a point where marginalized people can express themselves and who they are to this degree. of course we've still got a long way to go as a society in that regard, but at the same time you shouldn't criticize those groups to exercising this self-expression.

i can't personally relate but I'd imagine that openly presenting your sexuality might also help closeted LGBT+ people coming out/accepting themselves? take this with a grain of salt but that's my assumption at least.

[smoke40]

Being homosexual is as less of a choice as being heterosexual.
And honestly, gay people that scream "I'm gay" out loud everywhere in every single conversation all the time are less annoying than old men who talk about how homosexuality is against the will of Christ.

[TheTrueMarioMaster]

People aren't born straight or gay. They are born asexual and don't become either until puberty.

[Magus]

A reminder (although for many people this might be the first time they hear about it) that the heterosexual-homosexual dichotomy is a fairly recent invention. This should prove to be an interesting read for anyone who is unfamiliar with the history of homosexuality (particularly section 4 is of great importance). I'm not familiar enough with human biology to make any statements with regard to the extent genes and whatnot play a role in determining our sexual preferences, but I will say no one is born strictly gay or straight, any preferences we may have "from birth" can possibly be applied to either sex. So one may find that a person who is born male and starts developing a particular attraction to typically male-coded physical traits and/or behavior (ie. muscled body, strong jawline, assertiveness, tendency to display dominance) will end up calling himself homosexual, but that does not mean that he was born strictly homosexual, simply that he has adopted homosexual as his identity irregardless of his potential to be attracted to women (as an anecdote, most gay men I know have had sex with a woman at some point).

If you ever wondered why trans women are victims of hate crimes more often than just about any other demographic, it has a lot to do with the fact that "straight" men come into contact with trans people who fit their sexual preferences but are regarded as male by these straight men because of their genital area. Since society teaches us that sexual preferences are apparently merely a matter of which biological sex you're attracted to and since gayness is coded as a sign of emasculation among many heterosexual men, when they are unwittingly attracted to a trans woman (or even a male or nonbinary person who is more fluid in his/their gender expression), this can feel like an attack on their masculinity itself, on everything they held to be true about themselves. I mention this because it goes to show how our socially constructed binary of sexuality is not at all innocent and ought to be called into question.

Anyway, my point is that the debate on how "natural" homosexuality is, is simply missing the point and giving abject natural law theorists more ammunition by virtue of arguing on their level when we really shouldn't even pay those idiots any mind at this juncture. Sexuality as biological reality is not nearly as interesting to talk about as sexuality as a constructed identity is.

As an aside, medicalization is a problem that extends well beyond the realm of sexuality. For example, the idea that depression is simply a genetic thing, something you're born with or not (rather than, at most, a genetic predisposition for depression in most instances) is driving the conversation about treatment of depression away from the root of the problem, which is how our social and material circumstances directly affect our mental health, even when we have little to no biological predisposition for mental illness (hint: it's got a thing or two to do with capitalism). This post is already getting too long though and this is neither here nor there so I'll leave it at that.

[PopYoshi]

So one may find that a person who is born male and starts developing a particular attraction to typically male-coded physical traits and/or behavior (ie. muscled body, strong jawline, assertiveness, tendency to display dominance) will end up calling himself homosexual, but that does not mean that he was born strictly homosexual, simply that he has adopted homosexual as his identity irregardless of his potential to be attracted to women (as an anecdote, most gay men I know have had sex with a woman at some point).

Now that may explain why I've been feeling things for guys since I had 4

[aero]

A reminder (although for many people this might be the first time they hear about it) that the heterosexual-homosexual dichotomy is a fairly recent invention. This should prove to be an interesting read for anyone who is unfamiliar with the history of homosexuality (particularly section 4 is of great importance). I'm not familiar enough with human biology to make any statements with regard to the extent genes and whatnot play a role in determining our sexual preferences, but I will say no one is born strictly gay or straight, any preferences we may have "from birth" can possibly be applied to either sex. So one may find that a person who is born male and starts developing a particular attraction to typically male-coded physical traits and/or behavior (ie. muscled body, strong jawline, assertiveness, tendency to display dominance) will end up calling himself homosexual, but that does not mean that he was born strictly homosexual, simply that he has adopted homosexual as his identity irregardless of his potential to be attracted to women (as an anecdote, most gay men I know have had sex with a woman at some point).

If you ever wondered why trans women are victims of hate crimes more often than just about any other demographic, it has a lot to do with the fact that "straight" men come into contact with trans people who fit their sexual preferences but are regarded as male by these straight men because of their genital area. Since society teaches us that sexual preferences are apparently merely a matter of which biological sex you're attracted to and since gayness is coded as a sign of emasculation among many heterosexual men, when they are unwittingly attracted to a trans woman (or even a male or nonbinary person who is more fluid in his/their gender expression), this can feel like an attack on their masculinity itself, on everything they held to be true about themselves. I mention this because it goes to show how our socially constructed binary of sexuality is not at all innocent and ought to be called into question.

Anyway, my point is that the debate on how "natural" homosexuality is, is simply missing the point and giving abject natural law theorists more ammunition by virtue of arguing on their level when we really shouldn't even pay those idiots any mind at this juncture. Sexuality as biological reality is not nearly as interesting to talk about as sexuality as a constructed identity is.

As an aside, medicalization is a problem that extends well beyond the realm of sexuality. For example, the idea that depression is simply a genetic thing, something you're born with or not (rather than, at most, a genetic predisposition for depression in most instances) is driving the conversation about treatment of depression away from the root of the problem, which is how our social and material circumstances directly affect our mental health, even when we have little to no biological predisposition for mental illness (hint: it's got a thing or two to do with capitalism). This post is already getting too long though and this is neither here nor there so I'll leave it at that.

The resource you linked to is much more solid than genetic arguments. Constructivist vs essentialist reasoning is at the heart of the question with the essentialists looking for the "gay gene" and understanding of the natural conditions related to homosexuality while the constructivist argument has been more of a critique of this reasoning as ahistorical and not scientifically sound as it was said here:

The third and final problem for the gay liberationist approach was that it often took this category of ‘identity’ itself as unproblematic and unhistorical. Such a view, however, largely because of arguments developed within poststructuralism, seemed increasingly untenable. The key figure in the attack upon identity as ahistorical is Michel Foucault. In a series of works he set out to analyze the history of sexuality from ancient Greece to the modern era (1980, 1985, 1986). Although the project was tragically cut short by his death in 1984, from complications arising from AIDS, Foucault articulated how profoundly understandings of sexuality can vary across time and space, and his arguments have proven very influential in gay and lesbian theorizing in general, and queer theory in particular (Spargo, 1999; Stychin, 2005).

And yes, capitalism has a lot to do with mental illness as well as LGBT constructs. Right now since it's Pride Month corporations are changing their color schemes and logos to rainbows as if that's actual support. On top of that they sponsor major pride events which has had an increasing effect on society by manufacturing new identities to be promoted in a polarizing manner. There's the idea of representation in media, but that comes down to selling ads and not moving forward. Corporate media is laser focused on issues like gay cake and bathrooms, but misses: the criminalization of trans identity, the high rate of rape of trans women, constant male-on-male rape in prisons, the U.S. military ignoring "bacha bazi", pederasty still occurring in religious institutions, or any other instances that are endorsed by the current state capitalist system. These situations all arise from differences of power and the way society is organized and is anything but natural. All of these are harmful to all people, and especially LGBT people as is evident by suicide and disease statistics morons like to use to show being LGBT is somehow wrong.

[Teemster2]

Why is this controversial topic on a mario fan games forum. People are free to talk about what they want, but it's just weird.

I agree. I don't want to discuss politics on a Mario fan forum. However the staff seem to be letting this continue so I will say this. You can't be born gay and if anyone says other wise that is just their opinion. This has been discussed numerous times on actual political forums and no matter how many times people say you can be born gay nothing has actually been proven.

Being a conservative christian does not make me biased nor do I hate gay people. I don't support the sin but as a child of God I still love them.

So one may find that a person who is born male and starts developing a particular attraction to typically male-coded physical traits and/or behavior (ie. muscled body, strong jawline, assertiveness, tendency to display dominance) will end up calling himself homosexual, but that does not mean that he was born strictly homosexual, simply that he has adopted homosexual as his identity irregardless of his potential to be attracted to women (as an anecdote, most gay men I know have had sex with a woman at some point).

Now that may explain why I've been feeling things for guys since I had 4

You chose to have those feelings. Something about them made you get excited. That is not proof that you or anyone else is born gay. That just means you have a thing for other men.

This site says there is no scientific data to back up claim people are "born this way". http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicati ... -fall-2016
Thank link was posted in a thread in a political forum by the person who started the thread and the thread went to become nearly 20 pages long with both sides still in disagreement. So nobody can say with 100% proof anyone is born gay. I am not trying to be rude here. A similar thread went for 40 pages and still nothing proven that people are born gay. There is no evidence that anyone is born gay.

Again I do not hate gay people. It says in the bible to love everyone including thy enemies so I don't have to support the sin but I still love the people.

Homosexuality is definitely not a choice. Why would anybody choose to be discriminated by society? That doesn't make any sense.
I can tell

So you say LGBT people are born to be discriminated by society. Very well

I did say that society tends to discriminate gay people although they are born that way and can't help it and therefore it wouldn't make any sense for them to choose to be gay. My statement was fully pro LGBT. How could you not see that?

Again there is no evidence to prove anyone is born gay. Just because everyone says people are born gay does not make it true.

[Walder]

don't really understand why such a topic is made on a mario forum tbh

[aero]

Again I do not hate gay people. It says in the bible to love everyone including thy enemies so I don't have to support the sin but I still love the people.

There's stories and verses that people suggest the Bible is saying homosexuality is a sin but are actually just reading in modern understanding into ancient text without any understanding of the historical context. It's good that you don't hate people, but you still have to make a case before calling something sin. Which passages are you referring to that say homosexuality is a sin, and what part of the Bible are you quoting to love everyone including enemies?

EDIT: For people asking why this is being discussed here, anything that follows the rules can be and if it's not something of interest to you all this thread can be ignored. I prefer it to the YOU KNOW WHAT MAKES ME ______ threads anyway. More conversational.

[smoke40]

You can't be born gay and if anyone says other wise that is just their opinion. This has been discussed numerous times on actual political forums and no matter how many times people say you can be born gay nothing has actually been proven.

Neither has god's existance, yet billions of people - including you - believe it, and live their life the way they live it, and maybe even tell others how to live THEIR lives, because they're so sure of it. Nothing has actually been proven, yet you come here and tell people that they're doing a sin when they're expressing their feelings.

You chose to have those feelings.

So you just one day thought of what your sexuality would be and were like "yeah, I'mma be straight"? I don't think that's how it works.

Again I do not hate gay people. It says in the bible to love everyone including thy enemies so I don't have to support the sin but I still love the people.

Do you mean gay people are your enemies?
Also, could you explain why is homosexuality a sin? What is the reasoning? I'm just curious, since I was born to an atheistic family, and haven't read my bible.

[John The White Yoshi]

We were discussing this in classroom because my teacher, Mr. Staley. Asked us does the fight with the LGBT Community similar to the Civil Right Movement.

It's fully possible, due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, that being gay or bi is not a choice. I can't say the same of being transgender or pansexual, that I honestly believe is a choice. And I know some may see it as a social experiment, but it's really nothing. There's no good reason to get upset about the whole concept of being gay, bi, etc. People say that "it's scarring for our children" and shit like that, but there are many, MANY worse things to expose to your kid than two women/men making out. Fremont Street in Las Vegas? How about the biased news/media? Cyberbullying? The fact that people can say those are fine, but the idea of LGBT isn't is the most immature and dumbest thing conceived in human history.

If the people have the freedom to be themselves or change what they social identify, then others need to respect that and move on.
I hope this answers your question.

[Eri7]

I personally think that for some people is a choice and for others isn't , everyone is different and everyone has different experience.

[Teemster2]

You can't be born gay and if anyone says other wise that is just their opinion. This has been discussed numerous times on actual political forums and no matter how many times people say you can be born gay nothing has actually been proven.

Neither has god's existance, yet billions of people - including you - believe it, and live their life the way they live it, and maybe even tell others how to live THEIR lives, because they're so sure of it. Nothing has actually been proven, yet you come here and tell people that they're doing a sin when they're expressing their feelings.

You chose to have those feelings.

So you just one day thought of what your sexuality would be and were like "yeah, I'mma be straight"? I don't think that's how it works.

Again I do not hate gay people. It says in the bible to love everyone including thy enemies so I don't have to support the sin but I still love the people.

Do you mean gay people are your enemies?
Also, could you explain why is homosexuality a sin? What is the reasoning? I'm just curious, since I was born to an atheistic family, and haven't read my bible.

I have a deep connection with God and I believe in the bible. Many of the people and places in the bible have been proven to exist including Jesus Christ. If you choose not to believe that is up to you.

There are quotes in the bible that lead me to believe it is a sin but at the same time I don't have a right to judge anyone. Only God can. So Again I won't support anyone being gay but I will love them. I work at a place that is full of African Americans, Hispanics, gay people etc and I get along with all of them. In fact everyone is happy to see me and says I am a nice guy. I have no problem with gays other than the fact the bible leads me to believe it is a sin but I still love them all.

Again I do not hate gay people. It says in the bible to love everyone including thy enemies so I don't have to support the sin but I still love the people.

There's stories and verses that people suggest the Bible is saying homosexuality is a sin but are actually just reading in modern understanding into ancient text without any understanding of the historical context. It's good that you don't hate people, but you still have to make a case before calling something sin. Which passages are you referring to that say homosexuality is a sin, and what part of the Bible are you quoting to love everyone including enemies?

EDIT: For people asking why this is being discussed here, anything that follows the rules can be and if it's not something of interest to you all this thread can be ignored. I prefer it to the YOU KNOW WHAT MAKES ME ______ threads anyway. More conversational.

You could do a google search but since I did bring it up I will say this. There are multiple passages through out the bible that do mention and discuss being homosexual or gay. You asked for specific versus but I don't honestly feel like looking them up and that will lead to a discussion I honestly don't have time for today. As for loving everyone there is several versus for that to:

Matthew 5:43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.

My original op was just stating there is no evidence anyone is born gay when multiple users were saying you "are" born gay which I don't believe to be true. I will let you all continue to debate this topic. I am going to step out for now. If anyone disagrees with me then I suggest reading the article I linked to in my above post.

[John The White Yoshi]

I have a deep connection with God and I believe in the bible. Many of the people and places in the bible have been proven to exist including Jesus Christ. If you choose not to believe that is up to you.

There are quotes in the bible that lead me to believe it is a sin but at the same time I don't have a right to judge anyone. Only God can. So Again I won't support anyone being gay but I will love them. I work at a place that is full of African Americans, Hispanics, gay people etc and I get along with all of them. In fact everyone is happy to see me and says I am a nice guy. I have no problem with gays other than the fact the bible leads me to believe it is a sin but I still love them all.



You could do a google search but since I did bring it up I will say this. There are multiple passages through out the bible that do mention and discuss being homosexual or gay. You asked for specific versus but I don't honestly feel like looking them up and that will lead to a discussion I honestly don't have time for today. As for loving everyone there is several versus for that to:

Matthew 5:43 You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven.

My original op was just stating there is no evidence anyone is born gay when multiple users were saying you "are" born gay which I don't believe to be true. I will let you all continue to debate this topic. I am going to step out for now. If anyone disagrees with me then I suggest reading the article I linked to in my above post.

"cath·o·lic
ˈkaTH(ə)lik/Submit
adjective
including a wide variety of things; all-embracing"
Sorry, but your explanation has a lot of counter-dictions.