Super Mario Bros. X Forums

Warlock wrote:Nice.

Just a note, what was Spinda's Score on the level that got 12th place?

27/25/17

Warlock wrote:Nice.

Just a note, what was Spinda's Score on the level that got 12th place?

6.9 but quill messed up

wait what the fuck

I didn't have an extra ohoho prepared, I was sure I'd be revealed by now

TIME TO IMPROVISE

RIP switch block wall. Uhh afaik I resprited the fairy into a white balloon and all dragon coins are obtainable by Mario. But 6.34 is a great achievement for me since I rushed it for 3 days . Good luck to the top 10! I should have removed the switch block wall ;_;

Quill wrote:ping

Frad and Phazon1111 are tied
If that tie wasn't counted on what Quill said that there are 4 ties then I will be 11th place. Yay!

Wooooooooooo

HOLY FUCK YES im in top 10

I've expected my placement, my level I did in 2.5 days ( Don't worry guys, my level have a simple/short and linear design) XD.
Congratulations everyone!! I'm so excited to see these levels!

Wow. I did not expect to get as high as I did.

Stop breaking ties. It's dumb, especially since you literally locked a level out of top 10 which got the same score as 10th did.

So! Response to criticism time.

I'll admit outright that section 2 was bad. Just bad. I was really uncertain about how it would fare, given the fact that it demanded a completely different playstyle from normal mario, but I went ahead with it since none of the 5 testers I had for this level (one of whom is a very respected designer, and his level may be in the top 3) expressed any strong concern. It happens sometimes.

What made it even worse was that I was at a very high point of knowledge about bullies relative to the player. You can do more than just choose what direction a bully bounces reliably. You can also determine the position of a bully, which changes the last part of section 2 (with the 3 block long platform) from a nightmare into a cakewalk.

With that said, there are some things in the reviews I think need addressing:

Aristocrat wrote:Also the music didn’t loop.

I can see the value in this, though it's kind of an aesthetic cherry-on-top. I cut other corners regarding aesthetics as well, since I had to turn in my level at the last minute.

Frozenquills wrote: The horizontal moving
platform doesn't give enough leeway and any kind of mistake means
instant death, even if you lose the bully (which can break the lua
sometimes).

While it is true that killing the bully means death, I did make that part of section 2 one of the closest to the restart point. I was originally considering a challenge like that to be placed later on, but that would increase the iteration time, and it's harder to give this challenge breathing room than the ones later on in the section.

I feel like making the platform any larger than it already is would trivialize the challenge too much. Adding extra blocks not only increases the total room the player can move the bully, but it also decreases the total amount of time the platform has to move due to the way the platform is coded. Slowing down the platform is also an option, though I felt like if I made it too slow this would make the player feel like they're being forced to wait.

The platform is intended to freeze when the bully's not on it. This is to prevent the player from using a super state + reserve item box to get to the other side using invincibility frames. This is a trivial break anyway, since the player wouldn't be able to get up the third bully rise, but it was my intention to prevent as many potential breaks as possible in hopes of making the intended method more obvious.

Quill wrote:screwing up means you lose a significant amount of process.

Not always. Save for the horizontally moving platform, the other parts of the section had some extra bits of breathing room in case you got hurt. You can just glide to the other side in the first row of spikes, or run across if you get hit. I placed an item refill station right next to the first bully lift with spikes on it. There are also several goombas in that region, which are much easier to stomp on than the bully. I placed normal blocks next to the second bully lift with spikes, which give the player a resting place for when they mess up there. Finally, the last part of section 2 can't hurt you. There's no hazards to the player whatsoever. There is a glitch which can accidentally kill the bully, but I'm not quite sure how to fix it yet. If that glitch doesn't happen, though, then you lose very little progress from making a mistake.

Whether or not these tactics work is its own question. But they're there, so that's worth considering.

Sorel wrote:This level would have been super high scoring if it weren't for the horribly difficult and borderline insane
second section. Sorry but I just couldn't do it without godmode.

TLtimelord wrote:God damn, I didn't know you hated your player so much. I mean, the first section is really clever and the final section's really nice too, but the middle section is utter rage inducing. Making the player jump on an unpredictable bully with no ends on either side over lava is unbelievably hard. Clever, yes, but unfairly difficult.

I'm not going to disagree with what either of you said. Section 2 was horrible, and there's no arguing against that fact. However, it would be more worthwhile to have specific details about why it's hard. TL made a start with talking about the horizontally moving platform, but didn't really expand upon that. Why is the platform unbelievably hard? How can this be fixed? Without these details I can't make it better without guessing as to what went wrong.

TLtimelord wrote:the level is really bare and some of the things you added in don't really go well together.

Same problem as before. What were the things I added in? Why do they not go well together? I also don't know why the level is "bare", but I think that'll just boil down to personal preference rather than something we can agree on.

Spinda wrote:Jumping on the Bullies never really feels right and their momentum makes them tough to get consistent jumps off, especially if you got the Leaf and use it to float. Additionally, merely collecting either of the Leaves in this section makes the 2nd star unobtainable.

I had a good discussion with you on codehaus a few weeks ago, so I can agree with you about the other parts of the level. I can also agree that the leaf creates a slightly different control scheme than just hitting the bully normally, which I really wish wasn't the case.

What I didn't understand from our talk on codehaus (or here, either) is why making the second star unobtainable is a problem. It's an extra challenge
for not doing something that normally makes the level slightly easier. I wish the leaves could've made section 2 even easier, but still. I can remember you saying something like the extra star isn't something the player would expect at first, but that's sorta the point since it's meant to be a replayability factor. Is there something else I'm not getting?



All in all, I really enjoyed the reviews! There's just a few things I felt needed to be cleared up on my end, and there were also some vague comments I needed more clarity on. But I'm glad y'all enjoyed section one and three, even if 2 is an apparition from below. I'll take all of your feedback into consideration once I make the complete, non-SCC version of the level, and for future content.

Have a meme:

I think it should be indicated that getting a leaf means losing access to the star. And, as I previously said, the leaf doesn't make the section easy enough or the difference in approach different enough to warrant replaying the level without it. I mostly used the Leaf as a way to occasionally tank an extra hit, and having to play the level again the exact same way except with less room for error and barely any other differences in order to get the star is what I took issue with.

Enjl wrote:Stop breaking ties. It's dumb, especially since you literally locked a level out of top 10 which got the same score as 10th did.

I don't think it's dumb. I'm deciding who gets what placement by how many judges preferred what level, which I believe is a fair way to resolve the issue.

By the way, care to share where you got that information?

Quill wrote:

Enjl wrote:Stop breaking ties. It's dumb, especially since you literally locked a level out of top 10 which got the same score as 10th did.

I don't think it's dumb. I'm deciding who gets what placement by how many judges preferred what level, which I believe is a fair way to resolve the issue.

except it's really unfair because according to the average of the scores, the two are of equal quality within the results of the contest. it's not like this is some round-based tournament where two levels are fighting over the last available spot, so why bother breaking them and skewing the results?

lmao what
More judges preferred the higher placed one overall, there is literally nothing wrong with that reasoning. Stop looking for things to whine about.

Spinda wrote:I think it should be indicated that getting a leaf means losing access to the star.

Not quite sure what you mean. Like placing a sign next to the blocks or something?

I mean you do have the visual language of using the same blocks to sector off the star as were used to prevent the player from breaking the level earlier in the section.

And, as I previously said, the leaf doesn't make the section easy enough or the difference in approach different enough to warrant replaying the level without it. I mostly used the Leaf as a way to occasionally tank an extra hit, and having to play the level again the exact same way except with less room for error and barely any other differences in order to get the star is what I took issue with.

Alright then, I'm not sure if that's what you said before but it's understandable.

Enjl wrote:except it's really unfair because according to the average of the scores, the two are of equal quality within the results of the contest. it's not like this is some round-based tournament where two levels are fighting over the last available spot, so why bother breaking them and skewing the results?

This is just the way that the host prefers to handle the placements. Some people prefer ties over individual placements, others prefer a clean step up from last place to first. No need to get riled up over your personal preferences.

I hate when ties happen that cut a tier in half.

Zha Hong Lang wrote:I mean you do have the visual language of using the same blocks to sector off the star as were used to prevent the player from breaking the level earlier in the section.

thing is that the blocks to prevent the player from breaking stuff appear only while you're Tanooki Mario, not upon collecting a leaf. Additionally, you don't know that you messed up getting the star until you're already at the end of the section at which point you've already played the section. A sign or some other indicator would be the way to go I'd say (even though in order for it to work well the leaf should provide a bigger difference).

How can I make my level more compact and less aesthetically empty?

Spinda wrote:thing is that the blocks to prevent the player from breaking stuff appear only while you're Tanooki Mario, not upon collecting a leaf. Additionally, you don't know that you messed up getting the star until you're already at the end of the section at which point you've already played the section. A sign or some other indicator would be the way to go I'd say (even though in order for it to work well the leaf should provide a bigger difference).

Alright then. If I keep the leaf in section 2 (and if I keep section 2 at all, which would not be immediately after section 1 anyway) then I'll make a sign about that in the beginning of the section.

Would you look at that: critizism! :O
It's OK, I am happy with my place, but I swear, I will use the concept again, and I swear, I will work it better.
(I liked the elevator tho, but more mushrooms is a really legit advice)