Complaint

[BTB]

joey this is seriously the worst ive seen you act in like awhile
does it really matter that it is michel and pixels? they might not be as active as others but they are still members of your forum, and you should respect them as such

Compromise: you answer the question or the topic gets locked

funny how you say this in a thread about locking topics for unfair reasons

[Danny]

Compromise: you answer the question or the topic gets locked

That's actually quite harsh, and that defeats the entire god damn purpose of what the original topic was about. It was about threads getting locked for no actual reason. Please use some common sense in this regard.

He doesn't know what the question is about, why should he feel that he needs to answer it.

You don't have to threaten to lock this thread because he's not answering a question you are pressuring him to answer. I wouldn't want to answer a question I'm being held against my will to answer.

[Shadow Yoshi]

(To everyone who is still reading this topic at this point, expect a post from me tomorrow; admins/mods, please leave this locked)

[Shadow Yoshi]

<BTB> lol joey locked the thread to have the last word how fucking ironic
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<Danny> P.S.
<Danny> Why is this community run by a borderline retarded person.
<Danny> Regards.
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<Bomber57> I'm gonna laugh if joey posts an awful argument and allows no replies, and then says "any further discussion will result in warnings kthx"
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<michel_> joey congratulations, you screwed up so badly your reputation is now a negative 1

First of all, y'all need to stop being assholes. I put up with a lot of stuff as an administrator of this community but I have to draw the line somewhere - it's lines like these that I have little tolerance for.

Do you know what I've been doing this past week? Those of you that stalk my facebook know I play drums, right? I've been practicing with a drumline from 1-9PM Monday through Thursday. It's hard work, but it pays off. Some days we spent entirely outside - it's also July, so yeah, it's hot. Do you know what I do when I'm sweaty and worn out every night when I come home? I take a shower, obviously, but then I get on my computer and browse these forums. Do you know what I do the next morning before I go off to practice again? I check up on this place. Do you know what happens when something breaks? I fix it. When someone PMs me? I respond to it.

I spend a lot of time doing things for this community. And then I get shit like this. Please grow up.

Now, onto the issue at hand - I decided to take a different approach in dealing with things this time. Instead of simply stating my opinions on the issue (which, essentially, come down to "we should lock less topics but if the topic is a dumb argument that isn't going anywhere then let's lock it"), I decided to raise a question:

"Why is it that Michel, Pixels, and 8bit are the only ones really arguing this?"

I understand this question is a bit vague, and the three people mentioned likely didn't have a good way to answer it. I was, however, greeted with responses such as "does this affect the validity of our argument at all" and "Joey, you're getting personal". I then chose to make my question less vague, in the form of this (directed at michel):

"What caused you to start this topic, and what brought Pixels to post in it?"

michel immediately asked me what I have against him and if I'm taking the credibility out of his posts just because he's michel. Nowhere did he actually answer the question of why he started the topic or why Pixels posted in it. It's a pretty simple question, is it not? Now, you all probably noticed that "you answer the question or the topic gets locked" was not exactly the most practical thing to say, and it probably wasn't what you were expecting either. The reason why I decided to go this way instead of actually contributing to the "Complaint" at hand was because I wasn't really taking this topic seriously.

I was doing that on purpose.

So, now let's change some things around. Let's say that the person that brought this issue up in the first place wasn't michel, but rather was a normal, contributing member of the community. This user, hypothetically, came up to me and said "hey, you guys are locking topics and halting the discussion instead of just punishing problematic users who are ruining it". He wasn't sarcastic about it, he wasn't simultaneously abusing the rep system, he wasn't simultaneously posting a topic about and contributing to a website making fun of this community, and he wasn't a user with a history of trolling and getting banned multiple times for being a problematic user. I would never act the way I did had this person posted this topic.

But no, this didn't happen. We instead had this issue brought up by michel. Let me remind you that, while michel was contributing to this topic and acting all diplomatic and stuff, he was abusing the rep system by giving pointless downreps to staff members. He also started a topic about a facetious website that misrepresents this community; this one isn't inherently a bad thing. However, michel and Pixels have made no effort to actually contribute to the community outside of making complaint topics and posting things that are controversial and/or meta-discussion by default (not to mention breaking rules as well).

So...how can I take this complaint seriously?

Like I said, if a normal member would've come up to me with the same issue I would be treating it differently. But I just don't feel like giving it the time of day when the user posting it has a history of being one of the most problematic users in the community, accompanied by his friend who seems to only exist to bandwagon on whatever he does.

"But no, Joey, I care about this community!"

No, you don't.

short version: don't be such a dick, don't act like you're a contributing member when you aren't, don't act like you care about the community when you've done nothing to show it, and maybe then i'll take you seriously

[HeroOfRhyme]

so tl;dr you're bashing michel now because of what he did in the past, and in doing so you lock a legitimate argument that the community agrees on in the process, just because michel started the topic? That's not a very good way of going about things. The past is the past Joey, and you should realise while michel may of had a bad past, he's a really cool person now.

If you honestly think for one second that it matters about who started the topic, instead of the topic at hand..then you have a lot to learn, man. Seriously, I think you need to grow up instead of us.

[BTB]

sure michel has a questionable history, but youve seen many other people in this thread, who are regular users of this community agree with his concerns
i was awaiting this reply from you all day, but instead of actually answering the question in the op you just say "michel and pixels dont care about the community and are trolls" so fucking what, the points they bring up are valid, and you fail to see that
if you cant tolerate people criticizing things you do that are controversial, such as how you acted here, then you probably arent cut out for admin

[m4sterbr0s]

lets stop bickering and be friends

No.

But on a serious note, I'd like to address something. To confirm what I had said a couple of times on the IRC, I understand what you're saying in terms of locking the posts. Yes, users should be punished if they cannot be respectful and don't contribute to the actual discussion, a serious discussion that is.

I've already apologized a few times for locking the evolution topic way too early. I know that was wrong on my part.

And I think it's fair to say that the staff team should tone it down somewhat in terms of locking topics. However, I will say this; if a topic really does get out of hand (meaning that there's more posts than bad posts), it will be locked.

I'm more than welcome to allow any discussion or questions here, as long as we're being respectful to each other. That's what matters. It's okay to disagree and question activity here on the forums, but don't use those threads to flame others.

And I believe that's fair, unless if someone would like to correct me.

[MegaMario1500]

I agree with Knux, we should just hug ourselves and have peace.

Come on Joey, that`s not cool man. You can`t judge Michel because of his past. Everyone changes and deserves a second chance.

[michel]

Basically you're trying to discredit my argument by pointing out who filed in the complaint.

Is it easier for you to attack my person instead of retaliating with a valid point of why our suggestions wouldn't work? Can't you answer to my complaint per se?
You've contributed nothing to this topic, Joey. Because so far, you've said nothing related to the subject but only commented on how you don't like me and how you think Pixels and I are maliciously intentioned, even though if the same thing was posted by another member, you'd be accepting it, as you said.

Hi everyone, this is Joey.

The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.

"Personal behavior and relationship administrator" is not a good reason to uprep/downrep somebody. Please read the rules for reputation.

My downrep does not break any of the reputation rules.

But this below goes unpunished only because it's uprepping Joey:

[BTB]

joey seriously post something useful instead of trying to discredit michel
i really appreciated how m4sterbr0s handled the selfie thread, deleting the posts that caused problems but keeping the topic

[sleepy]

I find most of your post quite a bit biased Joey, but that's not what this topic is about, is it?

Now, back to the topic at hand.

What's up with all these topics being locked for such weird reasons? I find some of the reasons for some topics being locked bullshit.
A few examples:
- "This isn't needed"
- "This might cause arguments"

IMO, topics should only be locked for a few reasons. For example, when a topic has run it's course, and the discussion is circling. That would be when a lock would be okay. Another reason can be because of flaming other users, but... (just an example) Should a topic with 500 posts that has 5-10 flaming posts be locked? No. Instead, I think said posts could be deleted. However, if said thread in question has more flaming posts than good posts, it shouldn't be locked.

[michel]

Bringing attention to this: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... 249#p45249

It appears that Joey locked this topic because nobody created a furious argument.
This is what we are complaining about.

You lock things because they spark furious arguments. And you lock things because they don't. Great logic.
Why don't you warn the users who don't create arguments as well?

[aero]

Now, here's a list of everything that you SHOULDN'T uprep someone for:
- You like them
- They just insulted someone you don't like
- They broke the rules

Special attention to "list of everything"
My downrep does not break any of the reputation rules.

uprep

Anyway, I think it's perfectly fair to take past reputation into consideration. For instance, if you have a history of following the rules and being constructive with few to no warnings then your opinions will be louder than others in the ears of the staff. That being said, I believe in second chances and I really don't disagree with the topic locking in general, just the specifics as discussed before in this thread.

[Ignoritus]

Bringing attention to this: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... 249#p45249

It appears that Joey locked this topic because nobody created a furious argument.
This is what we are complaining about.

You lock things because they spark furious arguments. And you lock things because they don't. Great logic.

He locked that thread because it was pointless? If you want compliment or criticize someone using the reputation system or a private message. There's no reason to have a topic dedicated to randomly calling out compliments/complaints and hoping the person they're directed towards sees them.

[Bomber57]

What I said on the IRC was in a joking manner as administrators have done this in the past (not specifically here) a number of times. I don't think you should just go and suddenly call people assholes when some of them weren't even being serious.

[m4sterbr0s]

Thing is michel, there are people who uprep knux just because they like him and they aren't punished either...
(though they should)

And in all honesty, that was a dumb reason to downrep all of us. I don't have a problem with you sharing the opinion of us letting people be who they want to be, but you could have approached us better with this in a more polite and respectful way.

Now to BTB's post; this was something I was actually suggesting but a few people said leave the dumb posts. My idea was to lock the topic if those posts were reoccuring, delete them, and reopen it, much like what I did with the selfie thread, yes.

[michel]

Bringing attention to this: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... 249#p45249

It appears that Joey locked this topic because nobody created a furious argument.
This is what we are complaining about.

You lock things because they spark furious arguments. And you lock things because they don't. Great logic.

He locked that thread because it was pointless? If you want compliment or criticize someone using the reputation system or a private message. There's no reason to have a topic dedicated to randomly calling out compliments/complaints and hoping the person they're directed towards sees them.

So why did he not address that in the first place?

Anyways, we are getting derailed.
Let's go back to discussing topic locking. I'm still waiting on Joey's answer.

[Ignoritus]

Bringing attention to this: http://www.smbxgame.com/forums/v ... 249#p45249

It appears that Joey locked this topic because nobody created a furious argument.
This is what we are complaining about.

You lock things because they spark furious arguments. And you lock things because they don't. Great logic.

He locked that thread because it was pointless? If you want compliment or criticize someone using the reputation system or a private message. There's no reason to have a topic dedicated to randomly calling out compliments/complaints and hoping the person they're directed towards sees them.

So why did he not address that in the first place?

It was locked in the first place and then there were complaints about it.

[Shadow Yoshi]

Joey, you can't discredit michel because of his questionable history and/or everyone deserves a second chance.

Yes, I most certainly can. michel is one of those users that has been repeatedly given "second" chances and has abused them, and is pretty close to losing this one as well.

Basically you're trying to discredit my argument by pointing out who filed in the complaint.

Is it easier for you to attack my person instead of retaliating with a valid point of why our suggestions wouldn't work? Can't you answer to my complaint per se?
You've contributed nothing to this topic, Joey. Because so far, you've said nothing related to the subject but only commented on how you don't like me and how you think Pixels and I are maliciously intentioned, even though if the same thing was posted by another member, you'd be accepting it, as you said.

Hi everyone, this is Joey.

The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.

"Personal behavior and relationship administrator" is not a good reason to uprep/downrep somebody. Please read the rules for reputation.

Now, here's a list of everything that you SHOULDN'T uprep someone for:
- You like them
- They just insulted someone you don't like
- They broke the rules

Special attention to "list of everything"
My downrep does not break any of the reputation rules.

But this below goes unpunished only because it's uprepping Joey:

I've already gone over why I didn't take your complaint seriously.

Also, you're pretty quick to assume Valtteri's reputation went "unpunished".

One of the reasons why I don't entertain things that you bring up is because you try to legitimately argue that "Personal behavior and relationship administrator" is a valid reason to rep someone.

manner as administrators have done this in the past (not specifically here) a number of times. I don't think you should just go and suddenly call people assholes when some of them weren't even being serious.

That was more of a general comment toward people who say those things.

[BTB]

you said he was quick to assume, but failed to give an answer. was he punished?
even if he was, i bet it wasnt until it was brought up here