Sorry, m4sterbr0s, but I'm going to have to unlock this as there are still some things that need to be said. Also, if we're going to have a feedback thread we might as well have it here.
Hopefully it's not some bullshit story and it's the solid truth. I'm getting sick of these lies being thrown around. Joey, you told me the poll was to try something new, whereas m4sterbr0s stated earlier that the poll was to prevent the bias that the administrators would have caused from picking a moderator themselves.
Picking a moderator in secret among your staff discussion would have been better than running a poll that would obviously cause trouble.
I already see that GhostHawk is a great moderator and has done a lot of actions so far. However, I'll be frank, don't you think Kley is a bit too inactive to handle a staff position? I do think if he would become more active, he'd be fit for the job, though.
Kep wrote:I already see that GhostHawk is a great moderator and has done a lot of actions so far. However, I'll be frank, don't you think Kley is a bit too inactive to handle a staff position? I do think if he would become more active, he'd be fit for the job, though.
I'm literally on everyday, when I can be. Sorry, but I go to school full time, Go to work full time, Administrate another forum, try to LJ as much as I can, now moderate here, beta test for Terraria, and lots of other shit.
8bitmushroom wrote:Hopefully it's not some bullshit story and it's the solid truth. I'm getting sick of these lies being thrown around. Joey, you told me the poll was to try something new, whereas m4sterbr0s stated earlier that the poll was to prevent the bias that the administrators would have caused from picking a moderator themselves.
Picking a moderator in secret among your staff discussion would have been better than running a poll that would obviously cause trouble.
Your problem is you're not fitting what you're being told in a chronological order.
They tried something new, and then they figured to take the top 5 and pick one from there.
You elected the people to be considered. How hard of a final draft is this to grasp?
8bitmushroom wrote:Hopefully it's not some bullshit story and it's the solid truth. I'm getting sick of these lies being thrown around. Joey, you told me the poll was to try something new, whereas m4sterbr0s stated earlier that the poll was to prevent the bias that the administrators would have caused from picking a moderator themselves.
Picking a moderator in secret among your staff discussion would have been better than running a poll that would obviously cause trouble.
Your problem is you're not fitting what you're being told in a chronological order.
They tried something new, and then they figured to take the top 5 and pick one from there.
You elected the people to be considered. How hard of a final draft is this to grasp?
basically what was stated here, danny, i agreed with most of your points, but i'm pretty sure the "vote for your friends" thing is not bullshit, considering most of my votes were literally because i got a bunch of people from my friends list to vote for- let's talk about something else.
i agree with knux being ultimately ignored, while i followed the insults towards him at some point (i apologize), i thought his logic was more obvious than leshrac's cast animations.
people wrote:This wasn't fair, you didn't let the community decide
Admins wrote:LET'S MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO TAKE PEOPLE'S OPINION INTO ACCOUNT, SO WE USE OUR OPINION LATER, GREAT IDEA RIGHT
Let's face it, the community literally never knows what it wants, most of the time it goes "I WANT THIS" and then they go "I DON'T WANT THIS ANYMORE FUCK YOU WHY'D YOU CHOOSE THIS"
Also, at the admins, you made everyones state their vote, and you made fucking kley an admin, good job (no personal offense)
Nien wrote:
Let's face it, the community literally never knows what it wants, most of the time it goes "I WANT THIS" and then they go "I DON'T WANT THIS ANYMORE FUCK YOU WHY'D YOU CHOOSE THIS"
I think this is mostly because we believe we want something, and so we beg and holler until we get it. Then once we get it we realize it wasn't really what we wanted in the first place. We then want to get rid of it, which can be rather complicated in most cases, such as this one.
What we have here is something we can call a "mistake". It was a mistake on my part for suggesting and implementing this election so quickly. I take almost all responsibility for this being a pretty bad idea. But hey, we tried it; this was a big step for the SMBX community. There was a lot of fighting and a lot of disagreement. A few people probably could've handled themselves better, I'm sure. I do know, though, that this has been a learning experience for me. Everybody can find something to take away from this mess as well.
Before I respond to some of the issues that have been presented during this process, I'd like to bring up something.
bi·ased /ˈbīəst/ adjective: biased; unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something. sub·jec·tive /səbˈjektiv/ adjective: subjective; based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
One of these terms can accurately be used to describe the election process. The other one can't. I'll leave you to figure it out.
RE: "Joey just promoted who he wanted for the job"
If this happened, we would've seen DarkMatt as a moderator for sure. The "administrative votes" thing was only organized in a sense that I asked the administrators if anyone wanted them. Nobody said they wanted Blueoak, nobody said they wanted DarkMatt, and nobody said they wanted Natsu. Everyone said they wanted GhostHawk or Kley, and I suggested the idea of having two moderators to which others agreed (more on this later). While I considered giving Blueoak another chance, none of the admins really seemed interested.
RE: "Promoting two mods is bullshit because you only said we were electing one!
...so? If you're angry at this, stop fishing for reasons to be angry. I understand it was a decision that we made without asking what you guys thought about it, but it's not like it makes much of a difference at all. I will say, however, that "Kley/GhostHawk's combined votes were more than Blueoak" probably wasn't something you liked hearing, but I knew that was flimsy from the beginning.
RE: "Blueoak worked so hard for this"
I find it incredibly hard to believe that spreading a "VOTE BLUE OR RIOT" campaign can equate to "working hard". I'm just going to stop right there on this one - Blueoak did not work hard for this. Nobody did. It's not a matter of working hard for the election. Also, if he skipped out on reviewing for his finals, that's obviously his fault.
RE: "Natsu was so high in the polls, why did he not make it?"
I try not to be too specific about users when speaking publically, but it appears Natsu (and everyone) is looking for a reason. First of all, like I said, none of the administrators supported it. The reason why I didn't support it, personally, is because I feel like Natsu is a little bit different from the rest of the staff team. While it's great for the staff to gain a different outlook on making decisions, I just don't feel like Natsu is ready for the position. He still needs to work on his English skills a little bit, and comes off to me as unnecessarily serious sometimes. Also, I find it hard to consider the fact that he had staff positions elsewhere. I didn't see much of it since I didn't frequent NSMBX or SMBXR, but I do know that (especially with the latter) it's not easy to trust that the staff employed the right people. If he was a good staffer there, that's great. As for his presence on this forum, though, I just don't think it would work out that well.
RE: "The poll is dumb because it got reset"
You're right. The 16-user poll getting reset two or three times definitely didn't help anything, but then again, neither did letting users change their vote. This also wasn't entirely my fault, as I only reset it once to add Squishy Rex (I had to edit it once or twice immediately afterwards but this only compromised two or three votes).
RE: "Joey's not listening to our feedback"
Do you really think so? Just because I don't immediately respond to feedback or I don't implement suggestions doesn't mean I'm ignoring you. I've had a lot going on over the past month or so, and while I'm not trying to make the "administration is hard" excuse, it'd be nice if you guys were...well, I was about to say "a little bit more patient", but I don't think that's the issue. Just stop jumping all over me every time I don't respond to you immediately or implement your suggestion. I know I've been a little slow in the "What would you like to see?" thread, and I do sometimes respond to certain people before I respond to others, but if you really think I'm ignoring you then just approach me about it nicely instead of saying something like "Joey doesn't even respond to what I'm saying lol" or "I love how Joey responds to him when I said something before he did".
RE: "This was just a last-minute administrative decision! The poll meant nothing!
False, and false. If you check the first post of the election thread, it clearly says the staff will be making the final decision. The only thing that we changed was that, instead of having a top 5 poll with the staff deciding from the top 3, we had a top 10 poll with the staff deciding from the top 5. I decided to change it because there were certain users up in the polls that we weren't exactly keen on promoting, but as the poll continued it did show that we probably didn't have to do that. However, the top 10 poll/top 5 staff decision allowed us more room to pick two people for the position. I will say that part of the reason I suggested picking two was so that we could have more moderators than administrators.
I would like you guys to know, though, that this wasn't originally going to be "the poll is solely used to see what people want". Not much planning was put into this process, but the community's votes did actually mean more in the beginning. We were considering taking these more into account, but then people started voting for their friends and for users that the staff really didn't want on the team (Blueoak and Natsu are not these users, for what it's worth), so we decided to put more of the decision in the hands of the staff. What bothers me the most about this is that you guys got really mad when the staff received more of a say in the decision. We could've just made the decision ourselves and not asked the community for your opinions. While I know that we may have gotten some hopes up, you should at least be appreciative of the fact that we attempted taking your opinions into account.
But the part that really bugs me? Everything along the lines of "this is Joey's fault" or "Joey can't change" or "Joey's a terrible administrator". This is not my fault. This is not anybody's fault. If you've gotten this far down the post and still think I'm a terrible administrator, you need to take a step back and look at everything that this community has done in the past six months. I'm not asking for you guys to give me any more praise for my actions than you should, as there are a lot of you that are thankful for what I've done for this community. I'm just asking those of you who still think I'm a power-hungry maniac to reconsider your beliefs. I've tried to be as nice of a guy as possible while I'm trying to rebuild this community from the state it was left in before I became an administrator, but I can't be as laid-back (as an administrator, not as a person) as others have been in the past. Am I more strict than Knux was? Yes, because the community needs that. Am I as strict as Kyasarin? No, because the community doesn't need that. You guys need to not jump down my throat every time I make a decision you don't agree with, as it's not easy being attacked by a bunch of users that bandwagon with eachother and sometimes have a skewed view of what's going on. I'm not perfect, and I'm going to make mistakes, and I want you guys to let me know if I'm doing something you don't agree with. I'm open to suggestions - it doesn't mean I'll take them, but I really do care about what you have to say. I just don't want you to say it the way you sometimes do.
Nah, I didn't write multiple paragraphs and not revise for my exams out of pure dedication for this forum at all. What would ever make you think I did that?
Joey wrote:RE: "Natsu was so high in the polls, why did he not make it?"
I try not to be too specific about users when speaking publically, but it appears Natsu (and everyone) is looking for a reason. First of all, like I said, none of the administrators supported it. The reason why I didn't support it, personally, is because I feel like Natsu is a little bit different from the rest of the staff team. While it's great for the staff to gain a different outlook on making decisions, I just don't feel like Natsu is ready for the position. He still needs to work on his English skills a little bit, and comes off to me as unnecessarily serious sometimes. Also, I find it hard to consider the fact that he had staff positions elsewhere. I didn't see much of it since I didn't frequent NSMBX or SMBXR, but I do know that (especially with the latter) it's not easy to trust that the staff employed the right people. If he was a good staffer there, that's great. As for his presence on this forum, though, I just don't think it would work out that well.
- Work more on my English? So you're literally putting in doubt my own communication? I know English isn't my primary language, but I put all my efforts to speak as good as possible. And really, what is there to expect from someone used to another language?
- Unnecessarily Serious? Mind to name a single occasion except for the times I disagreed with you? Not saying that it's because of the fact I'm actually talking to you, but I really feel like I need to get serious in order to try to make you understand my points.
- Is it really that hard to believe I've been a GMod? Well if that's the case you can easily ask Chad, reghrhre, Magician, Emral, Raster ... pretty much anyone who has been in NSMBX and SMBX:R. I thank you for not questioning my moderating deeds in the past, but I would like to ask you to trust in the abilities of others, regardless of what they have done.
For instance, Knux. I know many people might not take him so seriously because of his past deeds, but that's exactly why you guys should take in consideration what he says, because it is based on PAST DEEDS. I don't care about what he has done anymore, because it belongs to the past, and honestly I wouldn't mind getting along with him now he wants to fix his mistakes.
Joey, I really thank you for explaining your reasons, I guess I'm done with this discussion, unless there's something I'd like to add or debate regarding anything interesting that anyone says.
So i talked with Joey about the thing 8bitmushroom posted and here is what we wroted:
by GrätselBüchner
I know exactly what you wanna say with this but if that is right you are wrong we all have our problems and stuff but this doesn't give you the chance saying someone is more qualified then me and helding it as a plan.
What exactly do you have agains me i never did something to you
by Joey
He is more qualified than you. At the very least, he forms more coherent sentences and types with proper English grammar/conventions. I know that's not really something you want to hear, but I'd be lying if I said we didn't take that into consideration.
It wasn't me that originally brought up the idea of bitching about you not being in the top 10. In fact, it actually went the other way, as people started to wonder why 8bit wasn't in the top 10. It was my original plan to put him there because he had more votes earlier on and was more qualified.
I don't have anything long-standing against you.
In the end i excused myself to Joey though since i don't also have really anything agains him and that was pretty much all i wanted to know even though i knewed the answer before. So this would also resolve why i was in the top 10 and so this is done for me.
