Super Mario Bros. X Forums

There's something that I've noticed about how the SMBX community is operating right now, and this may not be the right place to post it, but I feel as though I need to get it out so everyone can see it.

There's a growing problem of elitism in this forum. Newcomers to the community generally get a warm welcome with stuff like "Enjoy your stay" and that, and it looks like this from the outset, but if you go further in, you'll notice how the veterans of this forum always seem to have the say in everything, and there's a lot of inside jokes and not many "official" tutorials. Also, it appears as though newcomers to the SMBX community are made to believe that NSMBX/Knux's forum/SMBX Revived never existed (there's actually something about it here, straight from Joey's mouth) and only veterans can know about them due to them originating from the aforementioned three sites. The topics about the history of SMBX and that which were posted back in early 2014 seem to have been lost under all the other topics, which further lends to this. Also, the super-secret cheat code that lets you save after cheating was censored for a very long time despite only the veterans knowing what it was, therefore also cutting the veterans off from the newcomers. Moreover, when famous members of the community are mentioned, it tends to mean famous people on this forum, which isn't representative of the whole community. So instead of seeing "reghrhre, XerX and Knux" for famous members, you'll instead see "ShadowStarX, PixelPest and Spinda" yet they technically aren't veterans because they've only been here for a year or two.

Also on a different but related topic, veterans are somehow not obliged to get their knowledge to newcomers. The lack of official tutorials is one example, but I'm seeing a lot of veterans (and this is also the case with new users) that outright refuse to help newcomers directly with SMBX-related queries, and instead either tell them to use Google, or blindly copy-paste a link which holds the answer to their query. I personally hate it when people do that, because newcomers often lack the SMBX knowledge required to penetrate through the page provided by the link. Also, Google will yield so many results that it's really hard to find which one holds the answer, and if a newcomer sees this as one of their first replies to a topic when looking for help, it sets a bad image of the SMBX community to them. This isn't Stack Overflow.

Has anyone else noticed this growing problem of elitism?

I don't think it's a problem, especially since most of the points that you used aren't really important imo. (Like why does it matter if they no about the history of the forums? Personally I wouldn't care whether I knew about this or not. Also, the Help and Support forum makes up for the lack of tutorials since people can ask about things there and get answers quickly, although I'm pretty sure some tutorials are in the works.) And one of the funniest things about this is that veterans often complain about this but newcomers don't (from what I've seen at least) and I really don't see much of a divide

HeroLinik wrote:So instead of seeing "reghrhre, XerX and Knux" for famous members, you'll instead see "ShadowStarX, PixelPest and Spinda" yet they technically aren't veterans because they've only been here for a year or two.

Well this line just makes you sound salty about it, which directly goes against all your points.

So, Linik, what exactly is the point in talking about people that aren't here anymore? Like, if you want to see them again, go to archive.org, but please understand that like everything else this community is moving forwards and not trying to stick to the past.
For new users, too, mentioning active users is much more accessible than mentioning ones that don't exist anymore. The former gives them people to be inspired by and approach, the latter tells overblown legends about past events that are no longer relevant.

To answer the part about "what is the community": It's fairly possible for everyone to become a well-known active community member (look at RSuper, Ryaa, Amine, shorty, thehelmetguy etc) and fallingsnow has actually put it best in that thread, and just because Joey said "this is the place of the SMBX community", you still won't overlook hints at the prior SMBX forums. It would be good to make some announcement or sticky thread that encaptures the community's history though, as well as an FAQ thread that gives newcomers a compass about everything they need to know for being a forumer.

It's not like people here would deliberately hold back making a tutorial, it's just a pity that we haven't gone far enough to make them until these days. If something is in the works then that's cool.

Elitism rather exists in forms of some people (or groups of people) being inconsiderate towards their surrounding and thinking that they could be jerks on purpose and they actually get away with it only because they have "veteran status". If some new member would drop by and display an attitude like e.g. Sanct's they would be shunned by everyone and punished with no fuss. A new member who starts out memeing through shitposts is quickly perceived as an annoying tryhard while some veterans do the exact same. This bias truly needs to stop.

The whole "History of the community" thing, aswell as the inside jokes could be solved by reintroducing the wiki, which I feel like we really need at this point due to a lot of new users joining the forums.

Also, I wanna restate one of my points about the "How did you find SMBX?" thing:

Snessy the duck wrote:I belive the "How did you find SMBX" category in your profile should be less strict by allowing you to type in how you found SMBX by yourself. There's some people who found SMBX in a way that's not listed, so it would be a good idea to give them the ability to type it in by themselves. Also, the fact that you must fill that in is kinda unfair, considering some people could forget how they found SMBX, me included.

I actually think we should just delete that thing all together, as it doesn't really add anything and I feel like it would be more fitting for a topic.

Yeah, new users can just describe precisely how they came to the game and the forums when they introduce themselves.

HeroLinik wrote:There's a growing problem of elitism in this forum. Newcomers to the community generally get a warm welcome with stuff like "Enjoy your stay" and that, and it looks like this from the outset, but if you go further in, you'll notice how the veterans of this forum always seem to have the say in everything, and there's a lot of inside jokes and not many "official" tutorials.

The so called "veterans" of this place usually have a say in everything because they've been around here a lot longer and they are familiar not only with eachother, but also with how things work around here (think posting habits, level design etc.). Your tutorial tangent seems weirdly out of place in a talk mostly about elitism and the "community", unless you meant some sort of introduction or FAQ thread which is a notion I fully understand and support.

HeroLinik wrote:Also, it appears as though newcomers to the SMBX community are made to believe that NSMBX/Knux's forum/SMBX Revived never existed (there's actually something about it here, straight from Joey's mouth) and only veterans can know about them due to them originating from the aforementioned three sites. The topics about the history of SMBX and that which were posted back in early 2014 seem to have been lost under all the other topics, which further lends to this.

Again, I'm not sure why you would make a point of this. Why make sure everyone knows "our" "history" when the community should evolve and adapt to also suit the newer members, so that claim seems to go against your own point. And to be honest who even cares about our "history", it's literally some knux drama and some other websites.

HeroLinik wrote:Also, the super-secret cheat code that lets you save after cheating was censored for a very long time despite only the veterans knowing what it was, therefore also cutting the veterans off from the newcomers.

It would seem your mind is still stuck in 2014, back when this cheat code was all cool and mysterious, and exclusive to the "veterans". This point also seems out of place considering what you're trying to get across. Isn't it great that this cheat code is now generally known by almost everyone? If anything it just goes to show that Elitism is barely if at all a problem at this point.

HeroLinik wrote:Moreover, when famous members of the community are mentioned, it tends to mean famous people on this forum, which isn't representative of the whole community. So instead of seeing "reghrhre, XerX and Knux" for famous members, you'll instead see "ShadowStarX, PixelPest and Spinda" yet they technically aren't veterans because they've only been here for a year or two.

Woah, you can get famous here on this forum with about 100 active members? Cool!
I also feel like the list you posted just goes to show that you're still in 2014, as they've been inactive for quite a while on the forums and are therefore just as representative as the "famous" people here. I'd rather you use the term "active" when describing Spinda, Pixelpest and ShadowstarX since "fame" here is essentially the same as activity.

SuperShroom wrote:To answer the part about "what is the community": It's fairly possible for everyone to become a well-known active community member (look at RSuper, Ryaa, Amine, shorty, thehelmetguy etc) and fallingsnow has actually put it best in that thread, and just because Joey said "this is the place of the SMBX community", you still won't overlook hints at the prior SMBX forums. It would be good to make some announcement or sticky thread that encaptures the community's history though, as well as an FAQ thread that gives newcomers a compass about everything they need to know for being a forumer.

I feel like the SMBX Official Discord and the forum are separate entities and "fame" on the Discord server is not at all a good example of showing how "everyone" can become a well-known community member. An FAQ thread is a wonderful idea, and I will make sure to propose the idea to the staff.

SuperShroom wrote:Elitism rather exists in forms of some people (or groups of people) being inconsiderate towards their surrounding and thinking that they could be jerks on purpose and they actually get away with it only because they have "veteran status". If some new member would drop by and display an attitude like e.g. Sanct's they would be shunned by everyone and punished with no fuss. A new member who starts out memeing through shitposts is quickly perceived as an annoying tryhard while some veterans do the exact same. This bias truly needs to stop.

Except not at all? If some new dude were to join here and all he did was shitpost and be rude he would be perceived as a complete dick and he would be reached out to by staff. If Sanct were to exclusively shitpost and be rude he too would be contacted by staff. This has already happened. We've spoken to Sanct and he's been acting a lot less rude since. Problem is, new users who exclusively shitpost often don't know better and us talking to them doesn't help.

HeroLinik wrote: There's a growing problem of elitism in this forum. Newcomers to the community generally get a warm welcome with stuff like "Enjoy your stay" and that, and it looks like this from the outset, but if you go further in, you'll notice how the veterans of this forum always seem to have the say in everything, and there's a lot of inside jokes and not many "official" tutorials.

So, you seem to think it is a bad thing that being a veteran on these forums gives you a bit of authority. Isn't it like that everywhere on this earth? Also, of course there are inside jokes, that is just a thing that happens when there are multiple people communicating with eachother. Then again, I do think this forum should have a bit more tutorial topics (or a single, big one for all I care) explaining the basics of the SMBX editor aswell as level design itself.

HeroLinik wrote:Also, it appears as though newcomers to the SMBX community are made to believe that NSMBX/Knux's forum/SMBX Revived never existed (there's actually something about it here, straight from Joey's mouth) and only veterans can know about them due to them originating from the aforementioned three sites. The topics about the history of SMBX and that which were posted back in early 2014 seem to have been lost under all the other topics, which further lends to this.

Okay, once again, this is simple logic. Even though I joined only a little over two years ago, I am aware of the previous forums (though this is mostly due to the Discord and skype groups). But those forums are in the past, some users which originated from these forums will, of course, bring them back into the conversation every now and then, which is also perfectly normal. Also, do you really think many newcomers will care about the history of SMBX? I do agree there should be a stickied topic with the SMBX timeline on it including all of the previous forums.

HeroLinik wrote:Also, the super-secret cheat code that lets you save after cheating was censored for a very long time despite only the veterans knowing what it was, therefore also cutting the veterans off from the newcomers.

I don't know why they did that either TBH.

HeroLinik wrote:Moreover, when famous members of the community are mentioned, it tends to mean famous people on this forum, which isn't representative of the whole community. So instead of seeing "reghrhre, XerX and Knux" for famous members, you'll instead see "ShadowStarX, PixelPest and Spinda" yet they technically aren't veterans because they've only been here for a year or two.

Also super normal, users that left the community are simply less relevant than their active counterparts. No matter what they contributed during their time. Yeah, sure, people like Reghrhre and Knux have done way more for this community then most us will ever do. But they simply aren't that active anymore (Knux recently became active again, but to new people he is just, well, new)

HeroLinik wrote: Also on a different but related topic, veterans are somehow not obliged to get their knowledge to newcomers. The lack of official tutorials is one example, but I'm seeing a lot of veterans (and this is also the case with new users) that outright refuse to help newcomers directly with SMBX-related queries, and instead either tell them to use Google, or blindly copy-paste a link which holds the answer to their query. I personally hate it when people do that, because newcomers often lack the SMBX knowledge required to penetrate through the page provided by the link. Also, Google will yield so many results that it's really hard to find which one holds the answer, and if a newcomer sees this as one of their first replies to a topic when looking for help, it sets a bad image of the SMBX community to them. This isn't Stack Overflow.

This is mostly due to the fact that some of the "questions" they are asking are just straightout stupid. Reasonable questions usually get answered very fast by this community, including these veterans which you seem to hate so much. But some questions are just retarded as they are literally allready explained in the stickies. XerX's "First Time Users Guide to SMBX" explains various simple things, like the layout of editor and basic events (I do think this should be rewritten for PGE. as that is what most people seem to use nowadays, but that's besides the point). But still many users will post questions which have been answered a lot of times allready in thread's like the aformentioned "First Time Users Guide to SMBX" aswel as in regular topics. I do not want to know how many times I have seen people asking whether or not SMBX is still being updated while a little bit of searching and reading would have given these people the answers they wanted allready.

Another thing that sometimes makes more experienced users get salty or slightly pissed is the complete neglect of any constructive critisism new users sometimes exhibit. Simply stating "I just do this for fun" is not how you deal with critisim and feedback. I am not going to deny there are users that will just shitpost back to the newcomer with a cynical or sarcastic comment (I am very guilty of this myself), but this is not a major problem if you ask me.

HeroLinik wrote:Has anyone else noticed this growing problem of elitism?

I for sure didn't! I did notice there are some people who are put on pedestals by the newer and/or less experienced users, but this usually originates for the newcomer's respect and/or admiration for the user in question and his/her design. I myself used to be new on these forums (of course, everybody was new once) and I was also quite cringey. (I even asked what a boss designer did once.) But there were lots of people which did want to help me become a better level designer. So no, I do not see the problem.

A good idea would be to have an easy-to-see tutorial mega thread with links to all tutorials available, covering everything one needs to know thats relevant for SMBX. Make it an announcement sticky so it's hard to miss.

That would obviously be part of an FAQ / guide thread, alongside how to use BBcodes, how to use PMs, how to navigate on the forums, etc.

Veterans aren't these glorified people who should be made into effigies and be respected as gods. Did I overdo it with that statement? Sure, but so did you Linik. Being a quote in quote, "veteran", doesn't make one better, but the way you behave in the community does. And if people don't know much about you that just goes to prove you haven't done much to get recognition. It's a matter of fashion. Keeping up with the times is important, and those who fall behind won't get nearly the attention those who do get.

Anyway, at some point I was dedicating my time to write a full SMBX tutorial that had never seen the light of day and shall forever rest in piece ... or not considering it got deleted after I reformated my PC.

I was working on this alone, so I think a good team could accomplish this with effort and dedication. If anybody is willing to make the effort I say go for it. But you guys need to chill down. Your demanding attitude won't get you far, and if you get a negative from most "veteran" users you can always learn how to use SMBX fully and write one yourselves. It's not like SMBX is this super complex program that only the people from 2012 or prior know how to use 100%. Sure, there are things that are still being discovered to this day (cough cough glitches cough cough) but it's such a little issue that you might not even consider it.

tl;dr all of you are making a big fuzz out of nothing.

I have an idea. What if we made the stickied posts display in a seperate "block" like what's done with the global announcments, except they will only display in their respective communities. This would make it so you don't have to go to the first page to view stickied posts and would make the first page cleaner.

Edit: Also, I think people should be able to switch it back to the original way stickied posts are displayed if they like that better.

That's no difference, you always have to click the first page of a subforum to view both stickies and global announcements.

Supershroom wrote:That's no difference, you always have to click the first page of a subforum to view both stickies and global announcements.

I actually didn't know that, could we maybe make it so they display no matter what topic you're on?

Snessy the duck wrote:

Supershroom wrote:That's no difference, you always have to click the first page of a subforum to view both stickies and global announcements.

I actually didn't know that, could we maybe make it so they display no matter what topic you're on?

But then there would be no difference between stickied topics and global announcements, except maybe importance.

I really don't have any complaints about etilism in here, and I only started to get active here about three months ago. I am fine with this community, but indeed, there is some bias here. Just like Shroom said, if a newcomer acts like Sanct, Nien or any joking member here, he will probably be punished in some sort of way.
Also, being well known on discord and being well known on the community are different things. Me and Ryaa, for example, are more well known in the discord than here.
Now, here are my answers to HeroLinik:

The Dwarven Digger wrote:

Snessy the duck wrote:

Supershroom wrote:That's no difference, you always have to click the first page of a subforum to view both stickies and global announcements.

I actually didn't know that, could we maybe make it so they display no matter what topic you're on?

But then there would be no difference between stickied topics and global announcements, except maybe importance.

There actually would be a difference, stickied topics would only show up in their respective topics while global announcements would show up anywhere.

Snessy the duck wrote:There actually would be a difference, stickied topics would only show up in their respective topics while global announcements would show up anywhere.

Snessy the duck wrote:I actually didn't know that, could we maybe make it so they display no matter what topic you're on?

Whoops, guess I'm really terrible at wording. What I meant was that we could change it so they show up no matter what page of their respective topic they're on (This goes for GA's too, except everywhere instead of in a specific topic)