Super Mario Bros. X Forums

Enjl wrote:tomorrow's characters are obviously Snorunt and Pichu

Enjl wrote:

Kuribo wrote:So, are all the characters going to be super gimmicky? Because so far they all have really specific properties and abilities that are pretty game breaking in normal levels. It would be nice to have at least a couple new characters who are usable in normal gameplay.

Also, not to be too nitpicky but some of the sprites are... iffy, at least to me. Bowser looks out of place in virtually any context, and Wario just looks odd, particularly his eyes.

Really? I really like the Bowser sprite.

To admit i gotta agree with Kuribo, The characters just feel like the regular characters, just with slightly strange gimmicks, And i also agree that the characters look a little out of place, But i guess thats why we have custom graphics.

mariogeek2 wrote:Seriously? Nobody responded to my reply? Come on!

I know how you feel
Same for my self.

Just wanna know if the multi will be LAN-Coop. !

And also if all api mod already in the lunalua will stay in the official 2.0 ?

Like collider, event, cinematx, etc...

lotus006 wrote: And also if all api mod already in the lunalua will stay in the official 2.0 ?

Like collider, event, cinematx, etc...

Why would it be removes?


Also by the way: Bowser is a link replacement which doesn't turn into a fairy! WHAT!

Enjl wrote:

Kuribo wrote:So, are all the characters going to be super gimmicky? Because so far they all have really specific properties and abilities that are pretty game breaking in normal levels. It would be nice to have at least a couple new characters who are usable in normal gameplay.

Also, not to be too nitpicky but some of the sprites are... iffy, at least to me. Bowser looks out of place in virtually any context, and Wario just looks odd, particularly his eyes.

Really? I really like the Bowser sprite.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but the new characters are pretty disappointing. Instead of giving wario his iconic moves, he has... clouds and veggies. Instead of letting bowser breathe fire he punches fire. Instead of letting bowser use minions as projectiles, he... makes a shield out of unfitting 1x1 pixel enemies. Bowser's sprite looks good, but it's really unfitting. While Wario was redesigned to fit SMB3, Bowser, a character who was ACTUALLY in SMB3 gets this weird custom sprite style.
One would expect Wario to get a shoulder dash and Bowser to get his ground pound. Not only is that what one would expect, but it's what one would want. Instead they get completely random, oddly specific powers.

Rosalina seems way overly complex, like Horikawa just tried too hard to make her unique and as a result it feels really forced (actually, all the characters feel this way). Also, some sprites like the star on the HUD and the hungry luma again look very unfitting.

Ninja Bomberman is basically a character who can only be useful in a level designed specifically for him, which isn't really bad, but I'm sure many people will wonder why people are making "ninja bomberman" levels in a mario level editor. He's a character who i feel could be a good character as a downloadable extra in case you want to use him, but not as a main playable character.

I know some people may argue that you can replace the graphics, but shouldn't the default graphics at least look good so that people aren't forced to replace them?
Another argument I'm sure I'll hear is "at least it's better than nothing" or "you can't complain because it's free". Just because it's better than nothing or free doesn't mean I have to throw away all my standards.

See, my fear is that this new SMBX update will suffer the same problem as Geometry Dash 2.0...it's just TOO big.

8 new playable characters is a LOT to get used to, and, as Kuribo said, they're all super gimmicky. Ninja Bomberman looks totally useless unless he's in specific situations. Not to mention all the LunaDLL stuff that will be involved.

I think this update needs more characters that are unique, yet simple (like Link and Rosalina). Ninja Bomberman and Bowser are just...why ;A;

I'm not trying to hate on this update, though. You guys did a phenomenal job with this, but I do think you did a bit TOO much.

Enjl wrote:

lotus006 wrote: And also if all api mod already in the lunalua will stay in the official 2.0 ?

Like collider, event, cinematx, etc...

Why would it be removes?

Just to know if on what I do my stuff will continue to work or I dont need to update the whole stuff for the lunalua

Thanks

So wait... Since the new characters just appear to be the same characters just with new abilities... Does that mean you have to sacrifice a character to have a new character? (Example : Sacrifice Mario for Wario, or Link for Bowser)

Ace wrote:

Enjl wrote:

Kuribo wrote:So, are all the characters going to be super gimmicky? Because so far they all have really specific properties and abilities that are pretty game breaking in normal levels. It would be nice to have at least a couple new characters who are usable in normal gameplay.

Also, not to be too nitpicky but some of the sprites are... iffy, at least to me. Bowser looks out of place in virtually any context, and Wario just looks odd, particularly his eyes.

Really? I really like the Bowser sprite.

I know this isn't a popular opinion, but the new characters are pretty disappointing. Instead of giving wario his iconic moves, he has... clouds and veggies. Instead of letting bowser breathe fire he punches fire. Instead of letting bowser use minions as projectiles, he... makes a shield out of unfitting 1x1 pixel enemies. Bowser's sprite looks good, but it's really unfitting. While Wario was redesigned to fit SMB3, Bowser, a character who was ACTUALLY in SMB3 gets this weird custom sprite style.
One would expect Wario to get a shoulder dash and Bowser to get his ground pound. Not only is that what one would expect, but it's what one would want. Instead they get completely random, oddly specific powers.

Rosalina seems way overly complex, like Horikawa just tried too hard to make her unique and as a result it feels really forced (actually, all the characters feel this way). Also, some sprites like the star on the HUD and the hungry luma again look very unfitting.

Ninja Bomberman is basically a character who can only be useful in a level designed specifically for him, which isn't really bad, but I'm sure many people will wonder why people are making "ninja bomberman" levels in a mario level editor. He's a character who i feel could be a good character as a downloadable extra in case you want to use him, but not as a main playable character.

I know some people may argue that you can replace the graphics, but shouldn't the default graphics at least look good so that people aren't forced to replace them?
Another argument I'm sure I'll hear is "at least it's better than nothing" or "you can't complain because it's free". Just because it's better than nothing or free doesn't mean I have to throw away all my standards.

I have to agree on all counts, even though I really respect all the work and creativity that went into these characters. Clearly the aim was to introduce new and unique concepts to the game, but these characters just don't have a place in a game like smbx. Now that their introductory levels have shown off all their unique abilities, what are we supposed to do with them? We've already seen everything they can do, and they don't fit into normal levels. Remember when we all used to make fun of Link for being a strange, seemingly pointless addition to the engine with limited gameplay possibilities? Bowser and Bomberman put Link to shame.

Kuribo wrote: I have to agree on all counts, even though I really respect all the work and creativity that went into these characters. Clearly the aim was to introduce new and unique concepts to the game, but these characters just don't have a place in a game like smbx. Now that their introductory levels have shown off all their unique abilities, what are we supposed to do with them? We've already seen everything they can do, and they don't fit into normal levels. Remember when we all used to make fun of Link for being a strange, seemingly pointless addition to the engine with limited gameplay possibilities? Bowser and Bomberman put Link to shame.

Same, of course i respect the work being put in this, especially considering that it's being done as a labour of love, but I can't really get behind any of the new characters.

Horikawa Otane wrote:

Ace wrote:I can't really get behind any of the new characters.

Then don't use 'em. Problem solved.

i mean if someone else makes a level for an episode with these characters and we're playing said episode we would probably have to use them soooo

Horikawa Otane wrote:

Ace wrote:Just because it's better than nothing or free doesn't mean I have to throw away all my standards.

And just because you said it loudly doesn't mean I need to listen to your standards.

Anyway, like I said many times (though perhaps your standards are too high to read posts), all of this will be going through a public beta. Where peeps get access to the beta release, you can post feedback, and the dev team (of which I am only a member) will listen (or not) and polish.

If you'd like to make actually useful suggestions, I'd recommend looking into the limitations of SMBX and LunaLua. Bowser picking up and throwing enemies would be difficult enough that I'd say it would have taken the entire dev time of the rest of the characters to do. It isn't happening. The other suggestions you said have other, similar, issues that you might know if you bothered to do research or ask. Like I did have a wario dash, but it was janky and buggy as hell. So I tossed it. The dev team is looking at maybe getting it to work again, but no promises.

Maybe your 'standards' are too high to make informed suggestions though idk, but honestly speaking with the flood of PMs and stuff it's really hard for me to separate the crap suggestions (like adding LAN multiplayer or a frog suit) from the genuinely good suggestions (having goombas follow Bowser, but paratroopas revolve around, changing rosalina's jump a bit higher, etc). I wish people would learn a thing or two about the engine and THEN start recommending things, but I know that's far too much to ask for, really.

I guess my standards of 'usefulness' are set too high since they're set at 'possible with work' rather than 'dreamland.'

Your "learn the engine before you judge" defense doesn't really apply to the issues that exist on a conceptual level. The problem with the characters is that their gimmicks don't have much value in a mario level editor. How many levels can you conceivably get out of Bomberman's specific skillset? Most of them would probably just riff on the stealth level in the postgame where he was introduced. And many of the characters' attributes will make normal levels either impossible, or ludicrously easy. Compare that with Peach and Toad, whose abilities are only mildly gamebreaking and easy to design around, and who otherwise function perfectly fine in a normal Mario style level.

From what I saw, the stealth stuff was part of the level and not the character - but maybe I'm wrong. Ninja Bomberman himself only has the double-jump to design around, and that shouldn't be too hard.

Could you please place a multiple midpoints and save state api in this edition? Those sound like handy features to have even without Ninja Bomberman (and, to a lesser extent, the double jump).

Thanks a ton!

Horikawa Otane wrote:

FanofSMBX wrote:Will there be any new buttons in the editor, or will everything have to be accomplished by putting lunalua lua files into level folders?.

During the beta, no. It'll all be in lua files with really easy imports. Like the extent of the code will be like:

Code: Select all

local wario = loadAPI("wario")

But we're thinking of ways to solve this for the full release.

FYI to everyone, this is how "new" characters work. As of now, they are basically custom graphics 2.0.

Horikawa Otane wrote:My comment above was more about suggestions. Ace, and others, have made impossible suggestions to try to 'fix' the 'problems' they perceive. I have zero interest in this - it's a waste of my time and of the person making the comment. Critique is fine, but if you want to suggest a fix... At least learn SOMETHING about the thing you're seeking to fix first. Or ask - "Hey, I saw this problem and I was wondering if this would be a possible fix?" Then I could tell you yes or no and why.

Hey, I was giving examples. I didn't say "Wario HAS to have a shoulder charge", I was just stating a few things that one would expect. There's no reason I should have to learn an entire engine to give feedback. Of course I know some stuff are very difficult/impossible. SMBX as far as I know isn't a very nice game to work with. That aside, it doesn't justify giving incredibly awkward abilities due to engine limitations. I think anybody looking at bowser or wario would agree that they're pretty awkward, regardless of whether or not they like the abilities or not. Not liking the abilities from a gameplay standpoint is my own opinion of course. The abilities being kind of clumsy and unfitting is a bit less of an opinion and more of a reality.

As for your comment to "not use them": I won't, because I don't even play SMBX anymore, so I don't know what "not using them" has to do with my ability to give criticism. My standards really aren't all that high either; I expect characters to be of at least the same quality as the original 5 smbx characters. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Horikawa Otane wrote:

Ace wrote:The abilities being kind of clumsy and unfitting is a bit less of an opinion and more of a reality.

I... I don't find them awkward. Neither did testers. D-does that mean... Is this real life? Or is this just fantasy?

Ace wrote:My standards really aren't all that high either; I expect characters to be of at least the same quality as the original 5 smbx characters. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Okay, SMBX 2.0 is cancelled then I guess. Ace didn't like some of the characters.

Oh Boy! Good Riddance To SMBX Forvevr!

Horikawa Otane wrote:

Ace wrote:The abilities being kind of clumsy and unfitting is a bit less of an opinion and more of a reality.

I... I don't find them awkward. Neither did testers. D-does that mean... Is this real life? Or is this just fantasy?

Sorry, I meant to say clumsy or unfitting. Let's be real, summoning clouds is not very fitting for Wario. Likewise, having floating piranha plants orbiting bowser is really unfitting as well. Are they growing out of thin air???

Horikawa Otane wrote:

Ace wrote:My standards really aren't all that high either; I expect characters to be of at least the same quality as the original 5 smbx characters. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Okay, SMBX 2.0 is cancelled then I guess. Ace didn't like some of the characters.

Why do you think I'm eve bothering to post if I don't play smbx anymore? It's because I still like the game, and I really want to see a smbx 2.0 do well. It just feels like it needs more time to be worked on in order to put it at the same quality as redigit's work. I understand that's what a beta is for, but no amount of tweaking can really fix something that is amiss on a fundamental level. You could prove me wrong, but once the time the beta is out, most of the changes to the characters are probably going to be bug fixes, which doesn't really address my main concern. I would honestly like to hear from you why each new character has so many new abilities. My entire feeling about the characters can be summed up in 1 word: over-complex. Rosalina could be different enough with just the double jump and glide. I was honestly quite happy when I saw that. The star power, homing fireballs and bombs though feels like it's trying too hard to make her even more unique. It's like Gordon Ramsay says: "simple is better".

Horikawa Otane wrote:ok your concern has been noted thanks for contributing

Do you think patronizing people who voice legitimate criticism is cool? I'm not stupid, I can tell when I'm being patronized.

SDAce with the real talk.