Do good levels really need BGO's

[Radishl]

I think someone can survive a screen without a pipe. Just sayin'. But, still, they're nice to have. I usually add one or two pipes with Piranhas and one or two pipes just for decoration each screen I take, just so I don't get criticized for "not having enough".

But that screen could use a coin block or two :3

[silent_]

Again, a screen without a coin block is fine.

However, I don't know why we're discussing things other than BGOs when the title of this is "Do good levels really need BGO's".

To get back on-topic, anyways, let me quote something you said a page ago:

are you two seriously fighting over a freaking waterfall?

I actually guffawed.

Regarding your level's screenshot, it has enough BGOs to suit a SMW-styled snowland. However, if it had:

-no scenery as it is
-or was a SMB3-styled snowland with a visually appealing tileset

...I would tell you to add more BGOs. But, regardless of my buts, howevers, ifs and ands, it looks good.

It doesn't need more BGO's , the landscape is what it is now because the level designer made it like that. It however needs more elements like coin blocks and pipes.

I didn't say it needed BGOs, if that's what you mean. I said that "IF" it had no scenery as it is or "IF" it was a SMB3-styled snowland with a visually appealing tileset I would ask you to add more BGOs.

[Superiorstar]

OK gez if you want some pipes so badly here!

[silent_]

That's when I'd say the level itself is too bland regarding scenery placement. And also, no one told you add pipes besides Radishl (and I got him to realize it's not necessary to have pipes on a screen anyways).

Regarding your screen, it looks worse than the last one IMO, especially because of the blandness and also, the pipe's and the question block's outlining is off. I recommend you fix that: Just saying.

[Superiorstar]

That's when I'd say the level itself is too bland regarding scenery placement. And also, no one told you add pipes besides Radishl (and I got him to realize it's not necessary to have pipes on a screen anyways).

Regarding your screen, it looks worse than the last one IMO, especially because of the blandness and also, the pipe's and the question block's outlining is off. I recommend you fix that: Just saying.

It's an ice switch. and how does it look bad?
PLUS There are cloud BGOS everywhere.

[DarkMatt]

I agree with Kep. Now you're trying to add complexity to your level and it's not working. The logs in particular don't have to be there. Just using normal ground would be okay. But I think the pipe and the question block looks fine.

Basically, you are entitled to make your level work in anyway. You should weigh feedback but ultimately not follow it to the letter, because they're gonna be wrong at some points, because you're not receiving facts you're receiving opinions.

[Radishl]

The placement of things as Kep said could use some work. I'd advice removing the logs because they Arnt really neccesary. And move the banzai cannon where the logs were.

[silent_]

It's an ice switch. and how does it look bad?
PLUS There are cloud BGOS everywhere.

It doesn't really look bad, it's just subjectively weird going from a black outlining to a dark blue outlining. And the cloud BGOs don't really present much, especially as they're in the background anyway (and if they're not in the background, they still are pretty unnoticeable and I don't find them an excuse to have barely any BGOs on the ground anyway).

Oh, and I never noticed those wood blocks. Yeah, they're pretty misplaced. I recommend recoloring them to a more icy color or just deleting them altogether.

[DarkMatt]

I should emphasize that object placement is just as important as graphics placement. Your screenshot depicts a level that looks pretty simple to go through. In fact, with the right stuff you can compensate for aesthetics weakness by making the level itself look complex.

[FanofSMBX]

Levels with no scenery are quite frankly just bland and dull, and I do think they are essential to making a nice SMBX level, even if they don't effect the gameplay. But the gameplay isn't the most important category when it comes to SMBX. I would say design and placement come first.

It isn't? Don't people download levels to PLAY them?

[Superiorstar]

It's an ice switch. and how does it look bad?
PLUS There are cloud BGOS everywhere.

It doesn't really look bad, it's just subjectively weird going from a black outlining to a dark blue outlining. And the cloud BGOs don't really present much, especially as they're in the background anyway (and if they're not in the background, they still are pretty unnoticeable and I don't find them an excuse to have barely any BGOs on the ground anyway).

Oh, and I never noticed those wood blocks. Yeah, they're pretty misplaced. I recommend recoloring them to a more icy color or just deleting them altogether.

final screenshot.

Yes I am aware that this isn't a screenshot thread.

[silent_]

How do you avoid that Bullet Bill?

Either way, you're really improving. The scenery placement is a lot better.

Levels with no scenery are quite frankly just bland and dull, and I do think they are essential to making a nice SMBX level, even if they don't effect the gameplay. But the gameplay isn't the most important category when it comes to SMBX. I would say design and placement come first.

It isn't? Don't people download levels to PLAY them?

Yes, they download them to play them, but still, gameplay is not as important as most people make it out to be. But then again, that's my opinion. I don't think you can change my opinion that easily, sorry.

[Radishl]

How do you avoid that Bullet Bill?

Either way, you're really improving. The scenery placement is a lot better.

Levels with no scenery are quite frankly just bland and dull, and I do think they are essential to making a nice SMBX level, even if they don't effect the gameplay. But the gameplay isn't the most important category when it comes to SMBX. I would say design and placement come first.

It isn't? Don't people download levels to PLAY them?

Yes, they download them to play them, but still, gameplay is not as important as most people make it out to be. But then again, that's my opinion. I don't think you can change my opinion that easily, sorry.

But gameplay is important.
People complain about new super Mario land being too easy. Even though the look is Preety.

[Superiorstar]

Super Mario land 2. SML was hard as hell.

[Superiorstar]

now here's a screenshot that relies more on aesthetics then gameplay.(not really)

[DarkMatt]

You've made your point already, Superiorstar. This is not your thread for dedicated feedback.

[Superiorstar]

You've made your point already, Superiorstar. This is not your thread for dedicated feedback.

Ok then.

[Axiom]

Just as much as some people judge a level based on the graphics it has - it's that thing again. Just to demonstrate that Nintendo's games included cut-offs as well, look at this screenshot:



But to be honest it's still about the design, and not really the graphics. But then again, it's about how they're used. A clashy level with great design might not look as appealing as the same level but with great graphics, but it really should be a good level, but unfortunately, they get low scores, just because the judges don't want to spend ages reviewing a "bad" level which is actually very good.

hell, even in super mario world there was a fair bit

well, typically what i enjoy is gameplay > graphics, but this is a mario game. adding a fair bit of bgo's doesn't hurt to spice things up. it's not like we're making a full fledged 3d game and trying to squeeze in an extra shader for looks will hurt performance. so a complete lack of bgo's is rather disappointing to see.
as for cutoff, i tend to not make too big of a deal about it unless its something like this

[Mabel]

gameplay is not as important as most people make it out to be..

Without good gameplay your pretty little turd is worthless just sayian. Gameplay Is always priority number 1, once it plays well start decorating and then you have a good level(but at least 80% of your effort should be going into gameplay)

[HeroLinik]

OK, imagine that you're playing a nonlinear level with really cool gameplay, but there are no BGOs or custom graphics anywhere, yet there are still enemies, powerups and coins.

Now play the same level again, but this time add in the custom graphics and BGOs.

Which one would you play? The answer to that question should paint a picture of what the SMBX community is really like with BGOs and CGFX in levels.