Re: (Version 1.1 Release) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kin
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:17 pm
by h2643
Final video:
Re: (Poll) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:49 am
by reghrhre
Hey guys, I'm curious if anyone is interested in me fixing this up? That means difficulty and whatever bugs or flaws or whatever you guys think should be fixed. I'm mostly asking since I wonder if people would actually like a fixed up version since the game is pretty flawed up in general. Though how many people even played this though? I seriously got like, 2 reviews/feedback in total; that's great! Except not really since I thought there'd be more since it's been a long time since I finished this
But yeah, post or vote in the poll, or do both; or nothing!
Re: (Poll) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:58 am
by MECHDRAGON777
Does my video count as a response? What I do not like that world four is completely optional and once you get to a certian point in world seven, you can no longer get back! That is what I hate most!
Re: (Poll) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:45 am
by bossedit8
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:What I do not like that world four is completely optional and once you get to a certian point in world seven, you can no longer get back! That is what I hate most!
Yeah, I do agree by that. The 4th World is mostly optional since if you do have that secret Star in the first Level of that World, you can basically go back to that one Area where you Need a specific Power Up to get to World 5 without to deal with World 4 in General (which means the Story can be skipped by that aswell). I may didn't really get the update all that much since I still have the original Files and not the updated one but oh well. Maybe I should check that. At World 7, it is impossible to go back anymore to get more stuff up until World 8. I hope there is a way to go back aswell but that is just how I normally set up on my own SMBX Episodes back then.
Re: (Poll) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:48 am
by MECHDRAGON777
bossedit8 wrote:
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:What I do not like that world four is completely optional and once you get to a certian point in world seven, you can no longer get back! That is what I hate most!
Yeah, I do agree by that. The 4th World is mostly optional since if you do have that secret Star in the first Level of that World, you can basically go back to that one Area where you Need a specific Power Up to get to World 5 without to deal with World 4 in General (which means the Story can be skipped by that aswell). I may didn't really get the update all that much since I still have the original Files and not the updated one but oh well. Maybe I should check that. At World 7, it is impossible to go back anymore to get more stuff up until World 8. I hope there is a way to go back aswell but that is just how I normally set up on my own SMBX Episodes back then.
Thank you for the support, also, the power up thing would not work this time since any item can be gotten from any power up block!
Re: (Poll) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:59 am
by bossedit8
MECHDRAGON777 wrote:The power up thing would not work this time since any item can be gotten from any power up block!
That is only from World 5 up to World 8. In World 1 till World 4's End, you get specific power ups. I still like the idea by having a random power up from a '?' Block though since it is in my opinion unique for this SMBX Episode but of course it is a bit harder to get specific power ups you needed the most.
Re: (Poll) Luigi's Fight For The Mushroom Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:50 am
by RudeGuy
I didn't really like the difficulty in world 8. When I played it, I couldn't advance without cheating.
(also why there are 2 yes options)
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:33 pm
by reghrhre
Okay, so it's pretty much been decided that everyone wants this fixed up. No one voted "No" and I doubt it'll get more votes than "yes" so I'm just gonna end the poll now, thanks for voting.
Alright, so now I need everyone's help, please tell me what needs or what you guys think should be fixed. I'm aware of some issues but not all especially since it's been a long time since I read anything here. I will add a list of things that will be changed in the first post and will add more to that post as you guys tell me what should be fixed. The issues I'm aware of already is the difficulty and what MECHDRAGON777 said about not being able to return back after approaching World 7. I THINK I'll fix being able to skip World 4 too, it's not really a big issue at all honestly but I'll think about it
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:01 pm
by FanofSMBX
I'd be willing to play it in-game and review as far as I got on one condition: I get to criticize anything no matter if it is directly fixable or not.
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:04 pm
by bossedit8
Well, the only thing I want to suggest is to add some hints of where the Stars is gonna be like a Sign or Peoples/Toads (can be anything) so the Player gets an easier guess where the Stars are since they are even required to get further on in this SMBX Episode.
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:31 pm
by reghrhre
FanofSMBX wrote:I'd be willing to play it in-game and review as far as I got on one condition: I get to criticize anything no matter if it is directly fixable or not.
Do as you please, no guarantees I'll care about some of the stuff that you say nor take it into consideration or whatever.
bossedit8 wrote:Well, the only thing I want to suggest is to add some hints of where the Stars is gonna be like a Sign or Peoples/Toads (can be anything) so the Player gets an easier guess where the Stars are since they are even required to get further on in this SMBX Episode.
I can do that, though IIRC, I added a "(S)" to the level names which indicates there's a star in the level, I'll probably make it more obvious though.
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:48 pm
by Imaynotbehere4long
You said that the only reason you even have stars in the episode in the first place is so the player doesn't unlock something early, unintentionally, right? If that's the case, have your levels end in a star instead of hiding them like they're optional secrets. Like I wrote on your forum when you still had it, you could have three stars: one at the end of Thorny Hike, one at the end of Stormy Path, and one at the end of Jackhammer Tract, all of them being SMB3 stars in place of each level's SMB3 roulette. On the world map, for each level, have the path split so that one path leads to a warp back to the world 2 Toad House and the other path leads to the next level. Doing this will accomplish your goal of keeping the player from skipping parts of the episode (which, due to the current implementation of stars, is completely possible) as well as prevent forcing the player to do unnecessary backtracking. Also, add hammer suits in the world 2 Toad House (in the section after the 1-star door) so that the player won't need to backtrack to a level to get the hammer suit needed to access world 1's secret. Win-win, right?
Also, for world 8, remove the parts where the player has to kill generated Chase AI Parakoopa sprite-swaps. You should also remove the falling sequences in Eerily Forlorn and Unearthly Volcano since they don't contribute anything meaningful to the episode, as well as move the coin trail for the falling sequence in Denouement up by about five units so that the player has time to react to it (or at least remove that one fireball bubble I pointed out on your forum). Lastly, use Luigi's SMAS-SMW sprites to sprite-swap Peach so that the playable's sprite better matches its hit-box.
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:39 pm
by FanofSMBX
What was the 9th world supposed to be btw?
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:53 pm
by reghrhre
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:You said that the only reason you even have stars in the episode in the first place is so the player doesn't unlock something early, unintentionally, right? If that's the case, have your levels end in a star instead of hiding them like they're optional secrets.
You know, that'll actually work perfectly, I'll do that instead.
Like I wrote on your forum when you still had it, you could have three stars: one at the end of Thorny Hike, one at the end of Stormy Path, and one at the end of Jackhammer Tract, all of them being SMB3 stars in place of each level's SMB3 roulette. On the world map, for each level, have the path split so that one path leads to a warp back to the world 2 Toad House and the other path leads to the next level. Doing this will accomplish your goal of keeping the player from skipping parts of the episode (which, due to the current implementation of stars, is completely possible) as well as prevent forcing the player to do unnecessary backtracking. Also, add hammer suits in the world 2 Toad House (in the section after the 1-star door) so that the player won't need to backtrack to a level to get the hammer suit needed to access world 1's secret. Win-win, right?
Sounds good
Also, for world 8, remove the parts where the player has to kill generated Chase AI Parakoopa sprite-swaps.
I'll do that, not sure why I implemented those in the first place now I think about it.
You should also remove the falling sequences in Eerily Forlorn and Unearthly Volcano since they don't contribute anything meaningful to the episode, as well as move the coin trail for the falling sequence in Denouement up by about five units so that the player has time to react to it (or at least remove that one fireball bubble I pointed out on your forum).
The falling sequences are supposed to be continuations in a way; the player falls deeper into the ground. At the end of Possessed Caverns, the player blows up the ground and falls but the level ends, in the beginning of Eerily Forlorn, the falling sequence is due to that explosion. It wouldn't really look good if the player starts off AFTER the fall instead of falling especially in case the player didn't get the memo that they fell deeper underground due to the explosion at the end of Possess Caverns. Same goes for the falling sequence in Unearthly Volcano, the player fell due to getting pushed off a cliff by a Devil Toad at the end of Eerily Forlorn, to have the player just start the level AFTER the falling sequence instead of before it wouldn't really make sense.
Lastly, use Luigi's SMAS-SMW sprites to sprite-swap Peach so that the playable's sprite better matches its hit-box.
How does that swap look and where can I find it?
FanofSMBX wrote:What was the 9th world supposed to be btw?
What 9th world?
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:52 pm
by Imaynotbehere4long
reghrhre wrote:It wouldn't really look good if the player starts off AFTER the fall instead of falling especially in case the player didn't get the memo that they fell deeper underground due to the explosion at the end of Possess Caverns. Same goes for the falling sequence in Unearthly Volcano, the player fell due to getting pushed off a cliff by a Devil Toad at the end of Eerily Forlorn, to have the player just start the level AFTER the falling sequence instead of before it wouldn't really make sense.
1) To 7-6 is your falling sequence for Possessed Caverns; you don't need another one.
2) "in case the player didn't get the memo"? Do you really think that little of us?
3) Even if my previous two comments didn't persuade you, you could always move the falling sequence to the end of the previous level instead of the beginning of the next one. Also, for the levels that currently have a needlessly long falling sequence, you could move the Player Start Location to the top of the first main section (2 in Eerily Forlorn and 7 in Unearthly Volcano) in each level so that there's still a falling sequence (but one that isn't unnecessarily long). That way, the player doesn't have to waste his/her time watching the needlessly long falling sequences again if he/she dies on the next level.
reghrhre wrote:
Lastly, use Luigi's SMAS-SMW sprites to sprite-swap Peach so that the playable's sprite better matches its hit-box.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:2) "in case the player didn't get the memo"? Do you really think that little of us?
I didn't say that now did I? I'm not changing the fall and that's final. It's like, a 5 second thing, you'll fucking live. It's also a SUPER MINOR thing and you're making it to be a big issue when it's not even an issue to begin with.
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
reghrhre wrote:
Lastly, use Luigi's SMAS-SMW sprites to sprite-swap Peach so that the playable's sprite better matches its hit-box.
I'm not completely changing the style for the players, it'll just clash with everything else in the end.
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:59 am
by MECHDRAGON777
I have to agree with "reg-err-ree" on this argument actualy..
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:19 pm
by Imaynotbehere4long
reghrhre wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:2) "in case the player didn't get the memo"?
I didn't say that now did I?
Yes, you did post that. Besides, my problem with the falling sequences is that they're at the beginning of their respective levels. If the player only has to see it once (meaning they're part of the previous level), that would be okay; if they weren't dragged out so long, that would be okay (see 3). However, If the player dies on either of those levels, he/she has to sit through the falling sequence again, and it can get really annoying after the third time or so.
Have you ever played a game where, if you got killed after watching a cut-scene, you were sent back to a part where you had to watch the same cut-scene again, but you couldn't skip it? That's the same feeling you're giving the player with your falling sequences. It may not be much in your opinion, but it's enough to annoy the player if he/she is killed a few times before the midpoint.
Since you won't remove the pointless falling sequences, at least move the coin trails in Eerily Forlorn and Denouement up a few units so that the player has time to react to it before falling into a hazard.
reghrhre wrote:
I'm not completely changing the style for the players, it'll just clash with everything else in the end.
Clash is less of a problem than an inaccurate hit-box.
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:35 pm
by reghrhre
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:
reghrhre wrote:
Imaynotbehere4long wrote:2) "in case the player didn't get the memo"?
I didn't say that now did I?
Yes, you did post that.
Show me then, because I'm not implying or indirectly stating that I think little of people.
Since you won't remove the pointless falling sequences, at least move the coin trails in Eerily Forlorn and Denouement up a few units so that the player has time to react to it before falling into a hazard.
Yeah, I'm gonna do that.
reghrhre wrote:I'm not completely changing the style for the players, it'll just clash with everything else in the end.
Clash is less of a problem than an inaccurate hit-box.
True, but the hitbox is barely anything noticeable, you'd have to look super closely to notice that the hitbox is off and even so, it's only off by less than 10 pixels at least
Re: (What should be fixed?) LFFTMK
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:45 pm
by Imaynotbehere4long
reghrhre wrote:Show me then, because I'm not implying or indirectly stating that I think little of people.
reghrhre wrote:At the end of Possessed Caverns, the player blows up the ground and falls but the level ends, in the beginning of Eerily Forlorn, the falling sequence is due to that explosion. It wouldn't really look good if the player starts off AFTER the fall instead of falling especially in case the player didn't get the memo that they fell deeper underground due to the explosion at the end of Possess Caverns.
Let's analyze this statement closer: "At the end of Possessed Caverns, the player blows up the ground and falls but the level ends." Fair enough, but after that, the player enters To 7-6, where he/she falls down again. In fact, the only thing that happens in To 7-6 aside from the player being taken to Eerily Forlorn is the player falling down. Moving on: "It wouldn't really look good if the player starts off AFTER the fall instead of falling especially in case the player didn't get the memo that they fell deeper underground"...how could the player not get the memo that he/she fell down after having fallen down in both Possessed Caverns and To 7-6? I would assume that the player is competent enough to realize that he/she fell down after having fallen twice already.
To be fair, the falling sequence at the beginning of Eerily Forlorn does have purpose from a game-play perspective since the player has to avoid falling into spikes. However, nothing can be said in defense for the falling sequence in Unearthly Volcano. It's frivolous from a story-telling perspective because not only did the player clearly see himself/herself being pushed off of the cliff in the previous level, but there are no blocks, background objects, or decoration of any kind in that section to indicate any transition aside from the player falling down (which, as stated before, was clearly shown at the end of Eerily Forlorn). Plus, it's pointless from a game-play perspective because the player is in the middle, but the Boos, which are the only other thing in that section besides the player, are placed on the sides, meaning the player literally just has to wait for the falling sequence to end before being able to play the level, and waiting = boring = not fun (why do I have to spell this out for so many people?). I would go so far as to say it's the most lazily designed part in the entire episode.
Like I said earlier, if you're that adamant about having your precious falling sequence, you could move the Player Start Location in Unearthly Volcano to the top of Section 7 to prevent the player from waiting through the falling sequence again. Plus, you could make a duplicate falling sequence at the end of Eerily Forlorn so that the player still has to go through a falling sequence (but doesn't have to sit through it again if he/she dies on Unearthly Volcano).
Moving on to other things that need to be fixed:
As you may remember from my original review, most of your custom bosses basically amount to forcing the player to wait, whether it's waiting for bombs to kill the enemies onscreen or simply waiting for the boss to give up and let the player continue. I'm going to go over the bosses that have some element of this as well as how they can be salvaged:
STATUS: Mid-boss of world 2.
TACTICS: Avoid one Rinka sprite-swap until the Hammer Bro sprite-swap can be killed.
MANDATORY WAITING: The player has to avoid the Chomp's flames for 15 or more seconds until a switch appears, and this is boring because of how easy it is to dodge the flames while waiting and how long the player has to wait for the switch to appear (even when a second Chomp appears, it's not that much more difficult).
POSSIBLE SOLUTION: Make the room more maze-like with the switch visible from the start of the level, and when each Hammer Bro is killed, have its respective switch appear immediately afterward. That way, the player has to fight his/her way to each switch in order to activate the veggie generator as opposed to waiting for it to appear.
STATUS: Boss of world 2.
TACTICS: Hit a switch that triggers bomb generators to kill the Parakoopa sprite-swaps.
MANDATORY WAITING: All the player has to do for the most part is wait for the bombs to kill all of the NPCs since he/she can stand under the boards and be safe from the bombs, and this gets boring quickly, especially since the bombs miss the NPCs most of the time. I know that you decreased their delay in v1.1, but the fact remains that this boss is still inherently boring. Not only do the bomb generators have a delay, but there's even a delay between when the bombs stop generating and when the switch reappears! The only time the level becomes the least bit challenging is when the chasing squad appears, but it's still not too difficult to dispose of them, especially since they can be bombed as well as off-screened.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION: Remove the switch and the bomb generator, and add more blocks going to the top of the section so that the player has to kill each NPC himself/herself. To prevent the player from being unfairly killed by the appearance of the next wave, have flashing !s appear for 2-3 seconds where the next wave will appear so that the player has time to move out of the way.
STATUS: Boss of world 3.
TACTICS: Take bombs that a Lakitu threw, then throw them at Wario. Afterward, wait for Wario to be hit by thunderbolts.
MANDATORY WAITING: The time it takes for the Lakitu to throw another bomb isn't that big of a deal, but the annoying part comes in when it disappears and the player has to wait for it to reappear again. Plus, when phase 1 is defeated, the player has to wait for a Lakitu that throws thunderbolts, and as I wrote in my review, it can become extremely boring waiting/hoping for the Lakitu to throw a lightning bolt in just the right place in order to damage Wario. The third part isn't so bad since the player can knock Wario into the bolts.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION: Remove the "Toggle" events and make all Lakitus visible at the start of the battle. That way, the player has to avoid the NPCs from one Lakitu while also finding a way to throw the bombs at Wario. Also, replace the thunderbolt Lakitu in Section 2 with another bomb Lakitu.
If that didn't convince you to change the boss, this might: Since both of the thunderbolt Lakitus are on the same layer, since they both have separate events, and since those events put the layer on "Toggle" instead of "Hide" and "Show," it's possible that, by the time a thunderbolt finally does hit Wario, the events will cancel each other out, meaning the player won't be able to beat the third phase of the boss:
STATUS: Section 1 in 4-3 Boss.
TACTICS: Avoid projectiles and various NPCs.
MANDATORY WAITING: Everything. Seriously, this isn't so much a boss as it is an exercise in patience. The player can just wait on the left side of the screen under the broken pillar and jump over Waluigi practically the entire time, especially since the generated NPCs can easily get killed by the mushroom-block-sprite-swap generators. The only tricky part is killing the Snifit sprite-swap when it appears, but after that, the player can repeat the same strategy until he/she is allowed to progress.
POSSIBLE SOLUTION: Lower Wario, make him unfriendly, and add a weapon generator so that this becomes a proper boss fight. Instead of the lava/floor rising after waiting, it can rise after a Wario is defeated.
I didn't mention Burglar John in world 1 since that boss wasn't too bad, and I didn't mention Burglar John in world 8 because that part is terrible and should be scrapped. I explained why on your forum, but if you don't remember, just ask and I'll explain it again.
Also, although the fight against General Toad is literally just two Mouser sprite-swaps with one NPC generator for each one, this boss is much better than you others, so I decided to leave well enough alone. However, the version of Bloody Tears you used in that same level is extremely annoying and should be replaced.
Finally, the final boss fight in Denouement is more annoying than anything because not only is it difficult to avoid the Wart sprite-swap's projectiles while also dealing with various other sprite-swaps of pre-programmed AIs*, but there's also a Hammer Suit generator on the bottom-right area of the section, so even if the player does get hit, he/she can just go back and get another power-up, then resume the fight. Basically, if it weren't for the Hammer Suit generator, the fight would be too difficult, but because of the Hammer Suit generator, the fight becomes too easy. Also, you should put a midpoint at the beginning of Section 2 of that level because of how unforgiving that section is, as well as replace Blizzard Buffalo's song with something else, because that song is terrible and doesn't fit the levels that it's used in.
*I added the part about dealing with other sprite-swaps since the player can easily avoid the projectiles by standing in the bottom-right area of the section.
