On the subject of the userbase of these forums, Joey.

[sleepy]

Hurts my feelings to not be listed in Deoxy's post about who he trusts. But oh, that doesn't matter and isn't on topic<3

What I think would be an excellent idea if EVERYONE tried to work together to make this community a better place. No more calling people dicks 24/7, stop the cyberbullying, etc., etc.

[Marina]

Ok I wasn't gonna say anything but my name came up so uh...

The thing is, Deoxys, you don't know who zlaker and Rudeguy are, and thats already the punchline. Because everyone who DOES know zlaker knows that zlaker can be reasonable most of the time and if he says "fuck off" its almost always meant as a joke, and I'm sure Rudeguy doesn't have any hard feelings for zlaker just because of it.

As for my line. I wasn't gonna leave the forum because zlaker said a 'bad word', I was talking about how sednaiur had to release his gfx pack the same month as me so now mine probably won't get featured. :P

As for Joey, I don't know what you think my 'intentions' are, but I assure you they aren't malevolent in any way. After all I was the one who convinced Raster to confess he was a Council member. I just try to be friends with everyone no matter what their reputation in the community is. Yes, that includes people like Knux and Michel. I don't approve of some of their actions, but I'm friends with them. I can't explain why, I'm just weird like that.

[Superiorstar]

So is that the reason I was banned from chat? For an argument?
Also I was defending myself from Nesli and her constant attacks (Seriously she called me a faggot what's wrong with her?).

[Panda]

So is that the reason I was banned from chat? For an argument?
Also I was defending myself from Nesli and her constant attacks (Seriously she called me a faggot what's wrong with her?).

I don't see how this is relevant lol.

Back on topic – Sleepy's right about the channel ops in my opinion. I mean, Quill is GMT 0, but he's mostly inactive. Though maybe Joey's intentions are to keep few because it's easier, I don't know.

[Mable]

So is that the reason I was banned from chat? For an argument?
Also I was defending myself from Nesli and her constant attacks (Seriously she called me a faggot what's wrong with her?).

Can you pls stop saying things i never said? Thx.


I can see Deoxys point and i gotta agree with him about it.

[silent_]

Can you pls stop saying things i never said? Thx.

What did Superiorstar say you said that you didn't say?

Besides the faggot part. Because you did call him a faggot. More specifically, Superiorfag.

[MistakesWereMade]

Nov 04 18:53:05 <Sdyexo> michelfp and Lightray killed Cloud's forum originally, and it has had a very rocky road recovering
Nov 04 18:53:32 <Drluigi> So they're the ones who convinced people to hate it?
Nov 04 18:53:39 <Sdyexo> pretty much


are u fucking for real

u gotta be the most oblivious person on the planet if you think the hate on cloud's forums came from michelfp and raster

[Danny]

Nov 04 18:53:05 <Sdyexo> michelfp and Lightray killed Cloud's forum originally, and it has had a very rocky road recovering
Nov 04 18:53:32 <Drluigi> So they're the ones who convinced people to hate it?
Nov 04 18:53:39 <Sdyexo> pretty much


are u fucking for real

u gotta be the most oblivious person on the planet if you think the hate on cloud's forums came from michelfp and raster

Well, I can understand if it was michelfp that did it, but Raster not so much. And what exactly caused the hate on Cloud's forum other than it's run by Cloud and some of the userbase had a bad rep in the past?

[MistakesWereMade]

Nov 04 18:53:05 <Sdyexo> michelfp and Lightray killed Cloud's forum originally, and it has had a very rocky road recovering
Nov 04 18:53:32 <Drluigi> So they're the ones who convinced people to hate it?
Nov 04 18:53:39 <Sdyexo> pretty much


are u fucking for real

u gotta be the most oblivious person on the planet if you think the hate on cloud's forums came from michelfp and raster

Well, I can understand if it was michelfp that did it, but Raster not so much. And what exactly caused the hate on Cloud's forum other than it's run by Cloud and some of the userbase had a bad rep in the past?

it literally wasnt even michelfp nor raster

it was like before michelfp even gave a shit about that stuff

it was the fact that cloud (before) always came into #knuxcentral, bragged about how many users his forum had and literally made a fucking channel that we found and had a topic saying "Knux's forums go down tomorrow".

the hate was waaay before michelfp and raster went ham on the community

[Ace]

holy moly guacamole
i can understand if you don't feel like you fit in with the community, but the hell is this 5000 word essay.
if you feel like you're better than this community, and the community isn't good enough for you, then why even bother with the textwall. I sense a lot of arrogance in the way you're compare yourself to others, and it's not leaving a good taste.
Seriously, if u have to avoid people in real life because of your "dark experiences" in the smbx community, then i feel like the problem is probably you and not the forums.
And before anybody tells me "you clearly didn't read the entire topic," lol of course I didn't. I'm not gonna spend an hour reading this. I'm just posting this based off bits that i've read.

[underFlo]

While I do agree on most of this, there's a few things where I have to disagree.
First, I don't see how Knux memes influence the usernase or its maturity. I also don't know what you'd want to do against it. Ban anyone who uses them?
I also think you shouldn't talw everything so literal. Most of the users get along on this forum pretty well, and about 90% of the insults aren't to be taken seriously. Tip: You can type /whois [Name] in the chat to find out their name.

But yeah, some users do have to mature more, but the thing is, the staff can't just instantly ban everyone who acts immature. Of course, if they do insult users and are assholes towards them and won't change their behavior, a ban is very well possible.

But I really hope you stay in this forum for longer, since you seen like a really nice guy.

[zioy]

Nickname, Deoxys is a veteran user lol

[underFlo]

Nickname, Deoxys is a veteran user lol

Where did I say he isn't

He said he didn't know who RudeGuy, zlak or Marina where in his first log. I assumed he didn't know their chat aliases.

[zioy]

Nickname, Deoxys is a veteran user lol

Where did I say he isn't

But I really hope you stay in this forum for longer, since you seen like a really nice guy.

Maybe I misinterpreted you idk

[underFlo]

Nickname, Deoxys is a veteran user lol

Where did I say he isn't

But I really hope you stay in this forum for longer, since you seen like a really nice guy.

Maybe I misinterpreted you idk

He said he wants to leave this community soon somewhere I think.

[Shadow Yoshi]

1.For those who interacted with me yesterday (I imagine weren't many) I kinda turned into my 2013 to early 2014 self (a real negative and self-loathing attitude, I've been trying to forget it) and I want to say I applogize for any somewhat low-life or rude, not thought out things I said, and one of those is what you, Joey, quoted.

Apology accepted. Thanks.

2.I have been around a while and I have noticed that the staff DOES listen to everyone here. I'm not the person to explain, but I can tell you everyone here has a voice, as long as you're willing to made yourself heard in a productive manner, like Deoxys did.

I'd have to say, Deoxys brought this issue up very maturely, and if any other user has some kind of issue regarding the forum, they should express it in a mature and orderly fashion like Deoxys did.

I agree with all of this.

I have something to say about users causing trouble when no ops are around.

Why not get more ops?

The main reason why I haven't opped anybody else yet is simply because I have nobody that I know for sure that I can trust (that can be active at the proper times, obviously).

I've noticed during late night (11:30 pm - 1:30 am EST) and early morning (4:00 - 7:00 am EST) that there's constant spamming, as well as immaturity. Sure, Starfy is there, but Starfy doesn't actually ban, he just kicks as far as I know.

My suggestion you get some ops that live in different timezones that can be active at the channel. Timezones I would suggest would be UK time (GMT +\-0) and USA time (PST EST CST etc.)

Might be just me, but whenever I'm "active" at the IRC I rarely see any ops at the times I mentioned. Perhaps another op should be selected?

Ironically enough, I'm up all night and I am around this too. Nothing ever really happens on most days, but there are some times I wished I was op so I could take care of it. However I've asked in the past and was refused.

It wouldnt hurt to have another op with GhostHawk at night, because he leaves eventually during the night as well, and Elsa is inactive, which leaves the channel open to anything.

Jason is working on Xanos and very recently fine-tuned its spam-catching algorithms based on a good chunk of logs from #smbx. Spam levels should be decreasing. That's another reason why I don't want to op anybody - Xanos is getting a lot better at controlling the spam, and it should take care of the night issues.

This also brings up another point, though - yes, Xanos is a great bot, but he's mainly there to clean up spam. If a user is breaking the rules/network policies in another way (sexual comments, etc.), it's best just to ping an operator (we may instate the !ops command if necessary) and the staff will get to it and deal with those users later.

Aww, thank you, Joey! But dear me, I'm sorry for coming out of the blue about this so suddenly. Later on when I was writing this, I just felt like this was some huge quest to like, save my friends or something because of how teary they got when I revealed where I was lurking on the IRC, recording all these logs for you.

It's not a problem. Like I said, I appreciate you doing this.

Also, I just want to say something--whenever I say something seriously extreme such as:

Or, do you even care for your members?

...it's not actually meant to say that you don't care--it's clear that you do, because again, this website exists. I probably should have started that off with "If..." so that I was clear that I was only posing a hypothetical. Ever since I learned about using hypotehticals to advance a position in logic, I've been in love with using those, so if you see those often, there you go. It's kind of like how different authors have particular styles because they like certain writing elements they learned more than others. But, here I go again with the analogies--don't I use those way too often? It seems like I do, anyway.

Speaking in a strictly non-personal sense, it kinda bothers me when I see that; it's common in politics and it's basically jumping down the person's throat. I know that wasn't your intention, though.

Sigh... it's still been really hard over the past year to get over that fact that people will relentlessly swear because they can, because they think it's cool, and because they believe nobody can and should stop them from doing it.

I mean...just because people swear doesn't mean they're doing it for those reasons. Sometimes, maybe, but I know I certainly don't do that. I don't believe swearing is bad unless you're using it to hurt others/yourself/take the lord's name in vain and stuff like that.

I know that it's true that people swear, but zlak's wording--isn't that the most offensive out of the derogatory terms there are to choose from?

No, there are far worse terms, but I don't want to go into that.

If he felt he needed to swear to indicate a humorous tone of voice, maybe he could have chosen a less suggestive term.

I think "fuck off" when used intentionally humorously is pretty funny. I would link you to a video that pulls this off perfectly, but there's other stuff in it that you might not appreciate that would take away from the value.

Still, though, I've now learned that he's zlakerboynumbers (oh lol here comes the asnumbers joke again, haha) on the forums, and looking through his posts, he doesn't act like that at all. As you stated later in your defense, people who act differently when you're not around like this indeed cannot be trusted.

I think this is a bit of a stretch, but yeah, people acting differently when I'm not there isn't good.

So what you're saying is... I can actually set licenses to things I create and still distribute them for free? My gosh, that's awesome! I honestly would use licensing if it were practical to the amount of things I have tended to post. In addition to that, do I need to be a certain age to set up an artistic license like this? I'd love to get started.

You probably wouldn't be able to license a good majority of the stuff you've posted here. I could see somewhat of a case for your complete-redraw pack, but since it's so heavily influenced by Nintendo's graphics I'm not sure what you'd be able to do. I've actually not really researched the licensing of art forms like that, so Google will probably help you more than I can.

I said a few things about this later on about IRL. But, might I recommend hiring someone to do something like this for you so that you don't have to use your severely limited time to do things like this? If you did something like that, you could not only live out your life the way you'd like to, but you'd also be creating more time to spend to attending to the small things that people would really like to see around here. Eh, it's an idea, but if you don't like it, of course you don't need to do something like that.

I'm very particular about the things that are added here, and I often like to do things myself. I guess it just depends on what we need to get done. For example, I have no plans to create an entire wiki for SMBX by myself, so in a few weeks I'll probably get a group together to write it and develop the standards for it. On the other hand, we do need medals - this is something I'd rather do by myself or have someone do it under my supervision. There's a certain way I want those to look.

I'm more book-smart than I am street-smart. Unfortunately, I don't understand the cliche that you first used and the reference that you used next as a result of this.

In 2001, a company called Enron was found to have put fraudulent information in its financial statements ("cooking the books"). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron_scandal

I can hardly wait until we get to a better homeostasis! Things like this come with time, though, and it's really more than kind of you to undertake such a task of helping people like this be better than they are now. I think we all are way overdue for a round of applause to Joey for maintaining something like this with such a positive future in mind. He knows what he's doing for sure, and I hope you guys will be able to see that soon.

Thanks. Hopefully we can stay on the right track.

I'm sorry; I do get pretty defensive about people I genuinely care about. It indeed was uncalled for, but maybe it happened because I put too many goals ahead of myself. You've seen some of the insane SMBX creations I've made before; if I didn't have a such a "anything is possible" mindset, a lot of this would have never happened. But anyway, I'm sorry for letting my persistence make me say what I said in there. In addition to that, the way he just shrugged off my presence like I was nobody just felt kind of rude, and that's what prompted me to say at least something. I don't know, sometimes I see myself as being very delusional; perhaps this is true. I said my three lines about digging their own graves after they were talking about forum memes, because I think we're honestly starting to grow sick of what has been harbored at http://knuckles96.prophpbb.com/ and his "Knuxforum Wiki."

It's okay. I know you have good intentions.

One of the things I feel is important to any argument is anticipating any counter arguments that might exist. This appeared to me as a huge gaping hole I needed to sew up, so that's how I worded it. I'm now remembering that one time when my dad told me that it's bad to start off points with a question. This is pretty much the main reason why--it raised your hairs (Or, at least I think that's not an awkward metaphor? Aw, geez, I wish I were as street-smart as I am book-smart.). If I had reworded this to say "Perhaps you think that these quotes don't apply to the forums.", you might not have felt as defensive as I made you right here. I apologize for doing this to you. I've made a few mistakes in this fun experiment, as I might as well call this right now (and will explain the reasoning for such an odd naming of such a post later), but don't we all make mistakes sometimes? Clearly none of us are perfect, but we can only strive to improve. Thanks for bringing up your initial reaction right here.

No problem. I only got defensive because it kinda looked like you were jumping down my throat, similar to what happened earlier.

Hmm. When I was there, it just felt like #knuxcentral all over again. It's definitely good to know that officially, the forum rules apply to the chat this time around. But indeed, what you were about to say was:

I was not here for any of this.

I KNOW, RIGHT?! It just makes my heart so sad and empty to see that people communicate these types of things behind your back. As disheartening as it is, would you like me to private message you the whole twenty-four hours that I referenced? Maybe it will help you get a little bit more insight on what's happening in there so that you'll know what to do around the time that you get more time to spend around here.

I don't think that's necessary. We should just focus on fixing the problem.

I feel that this drama goes hand-in-hand with the rehashed memes that circulated abroad Knux's forums in the day. If everyone wasn't so concerned about what's been opinionated and what purely factual, I'd say that maybe a good quarter of some of the mishaps that have occurred would be gone. Also, people's tastes for certain level design changes, so discussing that is almost like discussing, to cite an example, the metagame of Pokemon X and Y. It's relevant to the game, but maybe there's a tad bit much going into it than what should be going in. I mean, if you'd like, I could hang out at Smogon's IRC for a day as well if you'd like, but ehh--I'd rather not add more to my electricity bill than I already have. It's one of the unfortunate things my family has to deal with since we're, by definition, middle-class Americans.

I think the drama is most related to two things: the current age/maturity demographic, and the leftover attitude created by Knux's forum. The latter is what I'm trying to fix the most, while the former will hopefully fix itself as a result.

To be perfectly honest, now that I'm seeing what I'm comparing you to, this isn't accurate at all since you're perfectly aware of the status quo and you're really trying to do what's best. My apologies. Disregard this link as being relevent, then, but definitely keep in mind that Martin Luther makes for an interesting study topic. If you ever have spare time (which, unfortunately, you probably won't any time soon I don't think?) and just want to sit back and read something, start on this guy. He's neat and he supports our faith.

No problem.

Also, going all the way back to my thesis, you're right not to trust your userbase--as I managed to show in my logs, they're rather... two-faced, I think. Hypocrisy might be the better word for something like that. It just seems like a lot of IRC users forget that the forum rules do indeed apply to the chat as well as to the forums. I seriously feel that this should be a global announcement, and I hope you'll agree with me here.

I mention them in the main Forum Rules topic; I suppose I could add direct links to them as well. I'm not sure I want to do a global announcement, though.

I CANNOT FORGET TO MENTION THIS. I also used this topic as a practice run. I enjoy preaching, arguing, or anything up the alley of defending something that I believe in. Thank you so much for spending the time you most likely did not have, Joey, to help get me through this small debate I was trying to have. It honestly does mean a lot to me. ;D It was really fun, and I'll definitely be taking some of the things we learned out of this to use in more practical debates pertaining to other matters. I'm also definitely looking forward to the sunny side of these forums--can't wait to see that happen. I'll be sure to be patient about it as well.

Glad you've gotten something out of this topic. I, too, am looking forward to the future.

I hope you other people have taken at least something away from this. If you feel you need to say anything else in front of the general public just as I felt I needed to, Joey, please do so before the flood of replies comes raining in, if you know what I mean. ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING FURTHER TO JOEY SHOULD MOST LIKELY PRIVATE MESSAGE HIM; PLEASE DO THAT FOR THE SAKE OF HIS REAL LIFE AND FOR THE SAKE OF MY SINCERITY. THANKS.

I'm okay with people talking in this thread just as long as I can respond to it.

Kind of hard when almost all of my PMs have gone ignored.

First of all, you probably can't find any examples of this. Second, you're a user that has tried my patience many times. Sometimes this will result in a PM with no response. I still read it, though.

The IRC chat is supposed to be a little more laidback than the forums as the only way that the chat can exist for longer than a user being online is through logs. Think of it as Snapchat, because those images don't stay there (at least in plain sight) forever.

Let me dispel this misconception right now:

All forum rules also apply to the IRC, as well as all of the rules outlined in the IRC rules thread. Anything about "the IRC being more laidback" is completely incorrect.

Because if people got a little bit of an understanding of what is going on currently then they maybe wouldn't flip their shit about it afterwards. Right now the only thing I see prospering from that is DarkMatt and the level forums getting a face lift. If there existed some form of monthly or bi-monthly newsletter or update status on the forums, maybe some people can get a good understanding of what is happening and they can adapt a little earlier to that. And it also helps if you're communicative with the users rather than just acknowledging suggestions and comments and leaving it at that. Also discussing issues would be better than brushing them off, I would give you some examples of this happening but the threads are either deleted or are jumbled up in the Off-Topic Discussion forum.

When I said "relevant staff decisions" I meant those that involve the punishment of users. Unless it somehow affects the community, it's really none of your business.

Also if you could stop shaming Knux's place and making it out to be a shithole all the damn time, that would be great. Yes, it was about as immature as ever, but it wasn't something you would go and touch with a 11-foot pole in a full hazmat suit, it was just immature, and a bunch of people had a quite a bit of fun with it before it really hit rock bottom, so it wasn't really bad at all, just immature. Sure, the staffing choice was questionable, but it was a fun place to be at for the time it lasted. The only reason I can think of why you hate it so dearly is because you were exiled from the place, and that was because you were kind of a dick and you criticized everyone all the time, and nobody really likes that in the first place.

It's an immature place that's responsible for a good chunk of the community's problems. I wasn't ever exiled from there, either.

holy moly guacamole
i can understand if you don't feel like you fit in with the community, but the hell is this 5000 word essay.
if you feel like you're better than this community, and the community isn't good enough for you, then why even bother with the textwall. I sense a lot of arrogance in the way you're compare yourself to others, and it's not leaving a good taste.
Seriously, if u have to avoid people in real life because of your "dark experiences" in the smbx community, then i feel like the problem is probably you and not the forums.
And before anybody tells me "you clearly didn't read the entire topic," lol of course I didn't. I'm not gonna spend an hour reading this. I'm just posting this based off bits that i've read.

Then don't post. You aren't really helping anything.

I do see a tiny bit of arrogance in Deoxys' posts, but I think that can be attributed to his religious worldview as opposed to him actually being arrogant.

First, I don't see how Knux memes influence the usernase or its maturity. I also don't know what you'd want to do against it.

Knux's forum in general was the problem, and the "memes" were one of the aspects of it.

[aero]

(we may instate the !ops command if necessary)

This caught my eye and I'd like to point out that GhostBot has a !report command that notifies all of the staff in a private channel if someone is misbehaving.

Report User in a Channel Syntax: !report (user's nick) (reason)
Privately Report a user in a Query: !report (user's nick) (channel) (reason)

There's a flood limit so don't try spamming the staff channel. It doesn't work at night since GhostBot needs to be there and I usually leave at 12:00am-2:00am EST but it's an option during the day.

[zioy]

I think the main problem here is that the staff is afraid of making mistakes. Mistakes are good because you learn from them.

[TLtimelord]

I think the main problem here is that the staff is afraid of making mistakes. Mistakes are good because you learn from them.

The staff does make mistakes. I think it's pretty obvious when shitstorms are started when they do.

[Chip Potato]

I think the main problem here is that the staff is afraid of making mistakes. Mistakes are good because you learn from them.

The staff does make mistakes. I think it's pretty obvious when shitstorms are started when they do.

Making mistakes is not the same thing as being afraid to make mistakes.