I know this is an age-old question, but...

[Shadow Yoshi]

So, basically, the community likes the same stuff and somebody needs to break the cycle.

[HeroLinik]

So, basically, the community likes the same stuff and somebody needs to break the cycle.

And that's why I'm asking this question. The SMBX community nowadays is very elitist when it comes to designing levels, and they frown on anything that doesn't have nonlinearity, CGFX or slopes. I'm essentially questioning why the SMBX community is very elitist when it comes to level designing and if this idea can be broken, allowing people to make levels at their own standard and not be forced to match elite standards.

[Magna]

The problem is, inexperienced level designers try to create levels based on the styles of good and popular level designers. For example, if User A creates a level with custom graphics and great gameplay, User B will most likely only see the custom graphics as the reason why his level is so good, and User B will create a level with lots of great custom graphics, but since User B is still very inexperienced compared to User A, his level comes out as complete shit with custom graphics as icing to cover up the shit. So he never found out why User A had such a great level and he continues to make terrible levels with custom graphics based on incorrect trend analysis.

[Kyo]

So, basically, the community likes the same stuff and somebody needs to break the cycle.

And that's why I'm asking this question. The SMBX community nowadays is very elitist when it comes to designing levels, and they frown on anything that doesn't have nonlinearity, CGFX or slopes. I'm essentially questioning why the SMBX community is very elitist when it comes to level designing and if this idea can be broken, allowing people to make levels at their own standard and not be forced to match elite standards.

Elitist? I can't think of any elitist in this community.

[HeroLinik]

So, basically, the community likes the same stuff and somebody needs to break the cycle.

And that's why I'm asking this question. The SMBX community nowadays is very elitist when it comes to designing levels, and they frown on anything that doesn't have nonlinearity, CGFX or slopes. I'm essentially questioning why the SMBX community is very elitist when it comes to level designing and if this idea can be broken, allowing people to make levels at their own standard and not be forced to match elite standards.

Elitist? I can't think of any elitist in this community.

You misunderstood what I said. I wasn't even referring to anyone elitist, it's just the attitudes of the SMBX community that are very elitist, and the way they frown at any level without any CGFX, slopes or nonlinearity, and praise those that do, often excessively.

[Kyo]

An elitist is a person that thinks they deserve better treatment from/over persons with less experience.

I also don't see a difference between an elitist and an elitist attitude.

[DarkMatt]

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with designing a level for people to like as long as you stay loyal to your own design style, and that's exactly what SM7 is doing. His design style is EXTREMELY unique, I can't find any designer here that has a design style identical to his. He simply found out that a big variety of background objects looks quite good, and the community found it to be beautiful as well. That's why he continued, that's how he found his own design style, something to be proud of.

According to your definition of sellout, isn't anyone that is considered a great designer a sellout? All of them design their levels according to the community's standards. They do it just like SM7. Am I a sellout too because I purposely design levels for the community to enjoy? I do maintain my design style after all.

Also, sorry for being a killjoy here, but please keep those logs for yourself. You are going further than criticizing. At this point it just leaves the impression that you are either overly proud on your opinion or fail to accept the opinion of others.

I'm a lazy bastard who never likes having to take points I talk to my friends about and paraphrase them. Sue me. (And of course I take pride in my argument. It's not a compelling argument if you don't back it up.)

The problem is more that SM7 is outright drawing the very sharp limit to innovation, like, to the point where it's really not an opinion anymore. Hell, I went over and looked at what SM7 has posted and I've noticed that some of his aesthetical choices are okay, others are bad, some are just horrible ideas, but they all pass off as "pretty" to himself and the public and the rationale there is, "Well they like it and I do as well. Means this is A+ gold material." He does have an okay level style, sure, but the problem here is that it's a very defined level style. To use more video game metaphors, it's like he stumbled on Call of Duty 4 and now thinks it's a golden design and devotes himself to hitting just that benchmark instead of going beyond the same formula.

He has LITERALLY found a compelling art style and left it at that. That is A-OK and great and all. What I do not agree with is him ending at just that. Last I checked, he sure did act like he knows the secret to the greatest levels of all time, where even subjectively, he's nowhere near close. Oh my god I gotta stop talking about this single point and move on.

The difference between a great designer and a sellout is that the designer never stops researching and finding out how to achieve a better platforming experience. A sellout stops right at where people start praising it. Pretty sure SM7 has walked himself right into the latter. (And don't tell me he never said he was that. His talk and his walk sure does imply sellout.)

[SuperMario7]

Below I typed my opinion on this issue. I've contemplated a lot on weather or not to post this, but I think I have to. I'm not happy with what is going on and I think it's necessary for me to post my thoughts about this. I know some may find it to be flamming, but this is just the tip of what I'm feeling and I think it's necessary to let people what I am going through and show how cruel some users are.

Spoiler: show

This is getting out of hand. I'm not going to stand around and let all the hard work and all the energy and all of the good I've done to be shoved back up in my face, called "forced", and have my very character assaulted when I have said NOTHING mean to ANYONE. I am going to keep this much tamer than I want it to be, but I'm still going to give my honest opinion about what I think is going on here.

First, I'll just say that I don't mind people criticizing my level design. I'll respect other people's opinions of my levels, they can say whatever they want about them. This is not what I am upset about, and I want to make that clear. What I am upset about right now is how I am being judged for a simple comment I made "my favorite levels of all time are my own". This is true. I truly believe this. I am not saying I think I'm the best designer of all time, or one of the best, or even a good level designer. I'll let others decide how good my levels are. But my favorite levels are my own. I design them exactly how I think levels should be designed. This is not conceded or cocky, so stop making it out like it is. I don't see why everyone's favorite levels aren't their own. Why shouldn't they be? They designed the level, so they should make it perfect according to their own standards.

ΓThatRandomGuyΓ, I can almost guarantee that I have done NOTHING to you to deserve what you and DarkMatt said about me. I have been nothing but nice to everyone on this forum. As far as I'm concerned, I haven't said one insult or one rude comment EVER. But I think I'm about to break that streak right here. You stay hidden behind your fake name (or maybe it's a real name, but I have no idea who you are if it is). You stay bullying people behind their backs for a harmless comment they made. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, you bitter, jealous, pathetic, creature. Again, I haven't done ANYTHING to you and you and DarkMatt are giving me hell. Just shut up and stop taking your anger and hatred out on other people.

DarkMatt, I didn't have a problem with what you were saying about my level design. Yeah, it hurts to know that even if you put so much effort and time into something, some people will still criticize it, but oh well, that's how some things work out sometimes. But to insult my character and call me a sellout when I have never said anything trying to be that way. That's just down right disrespectful and rude. You insulted my level design and I defended myself, but out of malice, you just want to keep coming back at me and jumping to false conclusions to make yourself look better. Well you don't look better. In my eyes, you look like an evil person. You do things out of unjust hatred, and then get praised for it for some reason. This disgusts me.

Everyone, please don't judge me completely on this. I know this may seem harsh, and rude, and angry, but this is not the person I am. I have been pushed over the edge and I am standing up for myself and what I believe in. Keep in mind I didn't start this argument, DarkMatt did. And I'm finishing it right now. I have said what I think about this, and now I'm done arguing about it. I'm sorry if I offended anyone that's not DarkMatt or ΓThatRandomGuyΓ.

[Kyo]

That random guy is not a user on this forum. He's just darkmatt's buddy.

[Kyo]

But he doesn't go in the chat? He isn't involved with Mario-designing at all.

[SuperMario7]

That random guy is not a user on this forum. He's just darkmatt's buddy.

Oh, okay. I just thought he was because he must have been checking the forums to quote me in the chat.

[DarkMatt]

Ok ok ok. This has gotten out of hand, with DarkMatt insulting SuperMario7 and SuperMario7 not trying to even calm things down. Both of you: grow up. There is no way I will stand for this. DarkMatt, keep your harsh opinions to yourself.

No. I am not bashing him in anyway necessary. I have just made the most compelling argument. I'm sorry you see that as "bashing", but there's nothing rude about identifying the problem.

Saying, "Your philosophy is bad and you willingly believe it's good," is not the same as "ur a faget". I'm sorry you could not comprehend real criticism, but I haven't insulted his face.

And yes Random is my wingman. You can usually only see him when I do movie night and other streams. Otherwise, he's not explicitly part of this community. He just likes hearing about stuff happening here, so I keep him in the loop.

---

Below I typed my opinion on this issue.

-This is not all about a comment you made. I am not sharpshooting.
-To reiterate, "my favorite levels of all time are my own" and other remarks you did leads me to believe you're a sellout. That is my argument.
-The backpedaling would be more effective if you weren't this visibly mad.
-Apppealing to Emotion. That's great, you do your taxes, you're still a sellout.
-Ad Hominem. Trying to make me and those that agree with me look bad isn't gonna remove that label.
-If you're saying you haven't done anything wrong, then, that's more reason that my "sellout" label sticks.
-I am calling you a sellout because that is what you are. That is no insult. That is who you are being right now.
-You've been backpedaling this entire argument. You can try all you want to downplay my opinion on you, but that doesn't mean I'm full of shit. It means you can't look my point in the eyes.
-I'm the one who has the sharp eye here. I wonder if they'll believe you just because you're quote unquote "better than me".

tl;dr: You're proving me right with that post.

[Shadow Yoshi]

I may have missed something, SM7, but it looks like you haven't yet responded to DarkMatt's main point in that he thinks you're a sellout.

It also helps to not get so angry, especially at someone who's unrelated to the community and will probably laugh at your insults. It's great that you're trying to stand up for yourself, but letting your emotions get the best of you isn't the right way to do it.

[zioy]

I may have missed something, SM7, but it looks like you haven't yet responded to DarkMatt's main point in that he thinks you're a sellout.

It also helps to not get so angry, especially at someone who's unrelated to the community and will probably laugh at your insults. It's great that you're trying to stand up for yourself, but letting your emotions get the best of you isn't the right way to do it.

SM7 is a pretty significant community member in my opinion. He was a level judge on Knux's and NSMBX and also has placed very high in just about every contest he's been in.

Anyway, my opinion on this can be found somewhere around page 2.

[Shadow Yoshi]

What does that have to do with my post?

[zioy]

What does that have to do with my post?

Never mind I misread the part where you said "especially at someone who's unrelated to the community"

EDIT: Since apparently we have moderators who like making blatant assumptions, I have to do one of those quote-split-things.

This is not about choosing to sell out.

I never said it was.

Intentional or not, I can hazard a guess that you haven't thought about what actually makes a level good.

Well, you're wrong here. I spend hours of time contemplating what I should add to my newest level to make it better than the last one.

Your knowledge is second-hand, and you are perfectly fine with that.

Excuse me, but my knowledge of this subject is not in any way second-hand. Like I said before, I design my levels in a way that I like. Sure, I do look at community standards to see what could potentially make it better, but ultimately I decide how I want my level to be.

Therefore, I can conclude that you do not take your level design anywhere near seriously.

Excuse me, but making blatant assumptions about my level design is very rude and incredibly unprofessional. Like I said before, I spend hours of time deciding what could potentially make my levels better. I also design my levels in a way which makes me happy and that I can enjoy. I took serious offense to this statement.

[SuperMario7]

Okay, on the subject of me being a sellout: I don't agree at all that I am a sellout. What annoys me about you is that you jump to conclusions and make what you say seem like fact, for example, "I am calling you a sellout because that is what you are. That is no insult. That is who you are being right now." I didn't think I was being a sellout, but of course because you know everything you're just going to say it like it's fact. But it's not fact. It's an opinion, and if that's your opinion, fine. But I don't agree at all. Now, why don't you explain in depth why I'm a sellout? I know you've already explained a bit, but it's more like you did this and so you're a sellout and then you did this so you're still a sellout. Be more in depth please, and then I'll give my argument as to why I'm not a sellout.

I didn't mean to backpedal the argument. I didn't respond to your sellout comment because of the reason above. My point was not to respond to that sellout comment in particular, but to say that you are a heartless person that picks argument just to inflict emotional pain in others. I still think this is who you are, but I'd like to know where you stand on that. I used emotion to show how cruel you are, because those were honest emotions and people should know what you do to others for close to no reason at all. So yeah, I'd like to see how you respond to those two questions.

[Kyo]

Apparently a sellout is a person who doesn't try to improve anymore because he's already accepted by the community. In other words, DarkMatt is stating that you don't want to change or improve your design because you think you are already good the way you are. Idk either where that's coming from but eh, idc. I've already uttered my opinion on this, not gonna repeat.