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Off-topic discussion.
deleted_account
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Postby deleted_account » Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:48 pm

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Last edited by deleted_account on Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ness-Wednesday
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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Ness-Wednesday » Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:48 am

Hey! You probably don't remember me, but we met in a gfx thread I made over seven years ago. Welcome back! ^u^

A lot of us can relate to feeling embarrassed over our older posts. The best part of the embarrassment is that it indicates how much we've grown personally. The forums back then were certainly a weirder place. But hey, we can only move forward, right? So much has changed over the last five-to-six years, and it continues to get better for SMBX!

If you're looking into creating and playing episodes, SMBX2 (2.0) and 38A are currently the most popular. Though I'd say it's more on personal preference. There is no right or wrong answer to which version you prefer using. I'm not really the best when it comes to answering this question.

TDK
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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby TDK » Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:19 am

_Lian_ wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:48 pm
Now, a question:
I saw that the community is fragmented these days between at least four versions of SMBX; the original, 38A, 2.0, and TheXTech. Which one is generally the one to use to reach a maximum audience as a creator and to find the most episodes as a player, given that I want to build and play standard SMBX-styled episodes without fancy Lua features?
That would be SMBX 1.3.0.1, since all of them can play 1.3 levels.
Last edited by TDK on Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby deleted_account » Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:15 pm

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Last edited by deleted_account on Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby krakin » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:12 pm

Nice to see some older users returning, and I can definitely relate to being embarrassed by old posts part, lol. It's insane how quickly time flies in just 10 years, and the changes we go through throughout that period.

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby TDK » Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:26 pm

_Lian_ wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:15 pm
Isn't TheXTech also compatible with vanilla
I did say all of the above mentioned versions can play 1.3 levels, so yes.
It's my preferred way to play 1.3 episodes.
_Lian_ wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:15 pm
but a straight upgrade to it feature-wise?
Yeah ... I don't recommend doing that. If you use xtech specific feature, you'll end up with an xtech specific episode.
Which would kill your goal of reaching to as many people as possible.

If you insist on using xtechs (with moondust editor, as xtechs lacks an editor), I would recommend saving your levels as .lvl file (and not .lvlx).
You have to pick the "SMBX64 (1.3) Level file (*.lvl)" option when you save as.
This make sure that your level is 1.3 compatible.

Wohlstand
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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Wohlstand » Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:06 pm

In short, words, if you want to implement an episode that will work on all existing engines, just follow the SMBX64 Standard.
TDK wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:26 pm
with moondust editor, as xtechs lacks an editor
Moondust Devkit is a preferred way to develop levels and episodes for TheXTech, so yeah. But, TheXTech since 1.3.6 now has its experimental built-in editor, mainly targeted to be used on mobile devices and consoles but is also possible to use it on desktops too.

And right, about Moondust config packs:
  • If you want to develop the episode for SMBX64 standard, use the "SMBX 1.3 Compatible" configuration package which implements SMBX64 standard and provides full compatibility with it (including disabling of unsupported functionality)
  • If you want to develop an episode for TheXTech itself using its unique features (including WLDX and LVLX files), use the "TheXTech SDK" config pack. This article should help you in this case: https://github.com/Wohlstand/TheXTech/w ... r-TheXTech

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Valentine » Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:33 am

You're going to find the most GOOD episodes for X2, and probably the most features.
38A has some good ones but the community for that one seems to be kinda dwindling due to the lack of dev support

Don't get trolled into using TheXTech, it has no valuable extra features other than serving as a multi-platform way of play smbx 1.3 episodes

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby deleted_account » Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:24 am

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Last edited by deleted_account on Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Emral » Mon Jan 16, 2023 11:16 am

_Lian_ wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:24 am
non-free Windows-only software
Unsure about SMBX38A, but just to be clear, SMBX2 does fulfill the four freedoms of free software as outlined in the gnu.org definition I just skimmed. We do discourage making modified releases purely because it'd make things more confusing for other users (who then have to expend a lot more storage space and might get frustrated by multiplying compatibility issues if the practice were to gain traction) and is largely unnecessary, but in principle anyone is able and free to build and distribute their own versions, and can read the source code via these three repositories (and their own installation for the lua part).

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby TLtimelord » Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:45 pm

_Lian_ wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:24 am
Valentine wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:33 am
Don't get trolled into using TheXTech, it has no valuable extra features other than serving as a multi-platform way of play smbx 1.3 episodes
Honestly I don't want to use non-free Windows-only software, even if it has a bunch of new features over 1.3. As far as I can tell, anyone can play 1.3 episodes and if I want to publish things as inclusively as possible, I can do that using the 1.3 level format.
I Remember Lordkofu. Welcome back :)

X2 and Xtech can play 1.3 episodes but 38a cannot. As far as I'm aware X2 has by far the most features available and that's ignoring anything you might need to do with LunaLua, because then the possibilities go as far as your computer can handle. But if that doesn't suit you then there's still dozens of assets like custom NPCs and other libraries where like, you'll need lunalua to activate but you shouldn't need to know how to be a coder to activate them.
As far as I know the only real draw to XTech right now is that you can play 1.3 episodes on other platforms.

X2 has a handbook that comes along with the download.

Wohlstand
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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Wohlstand » Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:59 pm

Valentine wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:33 am
other than serving as a multi-platform way of play smbx 1.3 episodes
Please don't live in 2020: while time is going, progress is going too. There is a much more features that had been added after the first release.

And also, let's don't make "engine one vs engine two vs engine three vs ..." holy wars. Every engine has its own independent features set, own goals, own development team and own philosophy.

So, about engine choice:
- as an ordinary player (who doesn't makes any new levels or episodes), you MUST use the same or compatible engine as declared by the episode or level to play it. I.e. If an episode is made for X2, use X2, there is no other choice here. If an episode is made for SMBX-38A, use SMBX-38A as these episodes aren't so compatible with other engines (TheXTech is able to play some SMBX-38A episodes including using of its unique features, but very conditionally). And episodes made for TheXTech exclusively, play on TheXTech. And episodes made for SMBX 1.3, can be played on TheXTech and on X2. Episodes made for older SMBX versions than 1.3, will work on TheXTech but will fail on both SMBX2 and SMBX 1.3.
- as a developer of levels and episodes, you should choose an engine which is fully suitable for your needs and goals. If you want to make levels and episodes using complex scripting logic and lots of new out-of-box elements, use X2. But, that will cost accessibility as this engine won't work on weaker computers, on non-x86 devices, and on macOS newer than 10.14 (Mojave) at all. If you want to make an episode with a lightweight functionality set (until 1.3.7, there is LunaScript a LunaDLL Autocode dialect available as a scripting language yet) and you want the episode to be playable on other platforms including mobile devices, use TheXTech.
Spoiler: show
You forgot about the big doze of vanilla bug fixes (the huge part of them is still a part of X2). And, there is a flexible compatibility fine-tune and compatibility modes for cases when a certain pile of new features breaks the work of a level.

Anyway, the most valuable feature of TheXTech is a much more controllable source code and totally no blobs (how I call the "smbx.exe" 2010 executable): to add a new feature or modify the logic you don't need to hack the assembly: you just modify a source code and do everything that you want (a modded fork made by SpencerEverly is an example).

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby TDK » Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:51 pm

Wohlstand wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:59 pm
Spoiler: show
Valentine wrote:
Mon Jan 16, 2023 4:33 am
other than serving as a multi-platform way of play smbx 1.3 episodes
Please don't live in 2020: while time is going, progress is going too. There is a much more features that had been added after the first release.

And also, let's don't make "engine one vs engine two vs engine three vs ..." holy wars. Every engine has its own independent features set, own goals, own development team and own philosophy.

So, about engine choice:
- as an ordinary player (who doesn't makes any new levels or episodes), you MUST use the same or compatible engine as declared by the episode or level to play it. I.e. If an episode is made for X2, use X2, there is no other choice here. If an episode is made for SMBX-38A, use SMBX-38A as these episodes aren't so compatible with other engines (TheXTech is able to play some SMBX-38A episodes including using of its unique features, but very conditionally). And episodes made for TheXTech exclusively, play on TheXTech. And episodes made for SMBX 1.3, can be played on TheXTech and on X2. Episodes made for older SMBX versions than 1.3, will work on TheXTech but will fail on both SMBX2 and SMBX 1.3.
- as a developer of levels and episodes, you should choose an engine which is fully suitable for your needs and goals. If you want to make levels and episodes using complex scripting logic and lots of new out-of-box elements, use X2. But, that will cost accessibility as this engine won't work on weaker computers, on non-x86 devices, and on macOS newer than 10.14 (Mojave) at all. If you want to make an episode with a lightweight functionality set (until 1.3.7, there is LunaScript a LunaDLL Autocode dialect available as a scripting language yet) and you want the episode to be playable on other platforms including mobile devices, use TheXTech.
Spoiler: show
You forgot about the big doze of vanilla bug fixes (the huge part of them is still a part of X2). And, there is a flexible compatibility fine-tune and compatibility modes for cases when a certain pile of new features breaks the work of a level.

Anyway, the most valuable feature of TheXTech is a much more controllable source code and totally no blobs (how I call the "smbx.exe" 2010 executable): to add a new feature or modify the logic you don't need to hack the assembly: you just modify a source code and do everything that you want (a modded fork made by SpencerEverly is an example).
Still, I feel like TheXTechs is going to cause more fragmentation in this already fragmented community.
I don't want "you have to download this other thing to play my episode btw" to become a trend.

Wohlstand
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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Wohlstand » Tue Jan 17, 2023 8:54 pm

Speaking about fragmentation: I asked people about the future standard extensions, and what the result is: https://wohlsoft.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=4456

EDIT: So, basically a fragmentation is a kind of a compromise to keep independent teams follown their philosophy that they prefer, and live in a peace. Teams that gets contrasted views on inevitably gets split into separated teams, and there are a lot of other examples around.

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Re: After a lifetime, I have returned :}

Postby Darkonius Mavakar » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:20 pm

just use smbx2

yeah there's the other smbx alternatives but x2 i feel like is the most "stable" one, at least in my opinion
there's so many different smbx versions that it's confusing, lots of changes in physics or compatibility and so on, i'd say you'd be safe with sticking with smbx2 as it is the most current ""main"" smbx version that feels like a proper continuation of the base engine, plus it has a lot of support, lua codes, libraries and the like, as well as guides


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