I'd like to say something about the state of the Level Judges.

[PixelPest]

This is exactly what I said!

That's pretty much the same system we have in place right now.

Yeah, but it's kinda flawed. How come those that haven't reviewed in a whole month are still judges?

If I'm correct, I'm pretty sure it's because as long as they have the skills of a Level Judge, there's really no reason to demote them for inactivity in case they come back at some point and then they can continue to review levels then. They wouldn't have to go through the re-application process and don't need to be demoted unless they do something actually wrong

[CynicHost]

What if we made the application process easier?

[PixelPest]

What if we made the application process easier?

It's already easy enough. Send at least two good reviews to Valtteri, he'll give them a quick look over first and then post them on the Application thread in the Level Judges forum, in which if no one refuses you as a judge for a legitimate reason, you become one

[aero]

What if we made the application process easier?

With out of the box thinking like that I'm surprised there's any issues at all.

[Emral]

None of you read marina's idea okay

He proposed to turn the level judge group into a "checkmark" for trusted judges who don't put out absolute garbage reviews. They can, just like our current judges, receive requests for a review on a level an would be a group people can turn to when in need for some feedback.

In addition to that I suggest taking any moderator privileges away from the group and, as a result, getting rid of the sub-categories. Global mods can just deal with moving topics and locking them if needed.

If we wanna go fancy we can highlight un-reviewed levels on the board index or something page so anyone, no matter if they're a "trusted judge", can more easily see them and give them some feedback. Preferrably these spots would go to levels which have been waiting for a while and from which the designer hasn't asked anyone directly for whatever reason.

______________________________________
If you're all stuck up with maintaining a certain standard and consistency - you won't get it. Just forget it. If the good judges get demoted because they have other things to do and the currently bad judges aren't given feedback there's no way any of you are going to be happy.
If you can't change the mindset about consistency just accept that the standard will go drastically lower due to mediocre judges being promoted to replace the good but busy ones.
If you can't change the mindset about quality just accept that there's not going to be any consistency from any judge except newly employed ones. The system marina proposed is trying to steer against the lack of consistency by just taking all the power away from the group and turning it into a checkmark.

[underFlo]

It's a die roll as much as letting the Graphics forum being left to users instead of "Graphic Judges" or the Art forum being left to "Art Judges."

Except Art can be judged just by looking at it, while judging a level requires you to download the level and play through it, which is way more time-consuming.

I agree with Marina's proposal, while I think that some of the LJs that can be trusted should keep their mod privileges so we won't have to rely on the GMs to move everything, I think a checkmark for trusted reviewers is a great idea, since your reviews won't get worse most likely.

[HeroLinik]

It's a die roll as much as letting the Graphics forum being left to users instead of "Graphic Judges" or the Art forum being left to "Art Judges."

Except Art can be judged just by looking at it, while judging a level requires you to download the level and play through it, which is way more time-consuming.

I agree with Marina's proposal, while I think that some of the LJs that can be trusted should keep their mod privileges so we won't have to rely on the GMs to move everything, I think a checkmark for trusted reviewers is a great idea, since your reviews won't get worse most likely.

I'm going to agree as well, but what about regular users that want to be level judges, and get the position? Are they locked out of mod privileges permanently, or can they gain them by making good reviews?

[underFlo]

If the staff thinks that they can be trusted then why not

[aero]

I read Marina's idea. It would help with review output a bit under the current system, but it doesn't cover the core problems with having Level Judges.

It's a die roll as much as letting the Graphics forum being left to users instead of "Graphic Judges" or the Art forum being left to "Art Judges."

Except Art can be judged just by looking at it, while judging a level requires you to download the level and play through it, which is way more time-consuming.

You make that sound like more of a problem than it actually is. Also the crux of my idea is rooted in discussion which does not always require downloading and playing the level. Ideally it would work like the rest of the forums where people talk to each other with the level as the subject matter, which serves as valuable feedback to the level maker over arbitrary 10-score reviews.

[underFlo]

if you think that judging a level without having played it is a good idea then you might as well promote a blind person to be a movie critic

[HeroLinik]

Also the crux of my idea is rooted in discussion which does not always require downloading and playing the level. Ideally it would work like the rest of the forums where people talk to each other with the level as the subject matter, which serves as valuable feedback to the level maker over arbitrary 10-score reviews.

This topic would like to say hello. In particular, look at the 6th point.

[PixelPest]

I think that we should just keep the system the same. Although the checkmark idea sounds okay, I think Level Judges would need to keep moderating privileges; things would be less hectic with moving levels since there are very few actively moderating GMs (I think Zeldamaster12 is actually the only one who does moderating besides the Admins). I think we definitely shouldn't get rid of the subforums in the Levels forum either. Really, I don't see any issues with the current system since all of these systems seem too complex and less efficient compared to what we have right now. A single promotion to the Level Judge position is enoug if someone really wants it, there's nothing limiting people to discussing levels, and really, AeroMatter's last suggestion above is already the situation of Casual Levels

[aero]

if you think that judging a level without having played it is a good idea then you might as well promote a blind person to be a movie critic

When did I say people who haven't played the level would be judging it?

This topic would like to say hello. In particular, look at the 6th point.

Irrelevant.

[PixelPest]

if you think that judging a level without having played it is a good idea then you might as well promote a blind person to be a movie critic

When did I say people who haven't played the level would be judging it?

People shouldn't be providing anything more than like a "thumbs up I'll play it later" until they play the level imo

[aero]

People shouldn't be providing anything more than like a "thumbs up I'll play it later" until they play the level imo

Why can't people agree or disagree with each others assessments of the level, and carry on conversations that the level maker can read through? It would help if everyone talking played the level, but it wouldn't need to be required like it is now.

[Yoshi021]

People shouldn't be providing anything more than like a "thumbs up I'll play it later" until they play the level imo

Why can't people agree or disagree with each others assessments of the level, and carry on conversations that the level maker can read through? It would help if everyone talking played the level, but it wouldn't need to be required like it is now.

The problem would be that you can't force people to make a discussion about a level.

[aero]

Why does there need to be force? Discussion is best when it happens naturally.

[Yoshi021]

But you're saying that levels are not getting much discussion, so how will you make discussions start naturally?

[aero]

I'm not making anyone do anything? It will happen on its own.

[Emral]

In marginal amounts. People don't even care to give feedback on the screenshots thread most of the time.